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Is this place officially dead now or what?

The last post was an acknowledgment that a regional TG was going out on 21 October but there has been no follow up here and nothing in the Echo Chamber since 14 Oct.

Outside of the debrief thread in General Discussions and the private Guardian Chambers there doesn't seem to be much happening in TWP at all these days.

Also, are we going for a record on the longest Delegacy transfer in NS history?

Are we just going to be the dead/inactive feeder now?

EDIT: Oh, it looks like I missed a discussion on the name of the newspaper as well. So, good job?

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Media has been writing up the new newspaper. Internal Affairs just took care of the Apocalypse. Foreign Affairs, Intel and Military have been busy on the Warzones. And WA Affairs' job continues, providing guidance to TWPers about the latest GA and SC resolutions.

The Voice and its members and departments have been working. We're not zombies; we're alive and kicking.

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Media has been writing up the new newspaper. Internal Affairs just took care of the Apocalypse. Foreign Affairs, Intel and Military have been busy on the Warzones. And WA Affairs' job continues, providing guidance to TWPers about the latest GA and SC resolutions.

The Voice and its members and departments have been working. We're not zombies; we're alive and kicking.

So we have a government but we don't have anyone actually being governed?  The last nation to sign up for the Voice was on 7 Oct.  We are approaching a full month with zero growth in the body politic.  As far as I can tell, I am the only member of the Voice that is active (or at least active in here) that isn't part of either the Guardians or the Echo Chamber, having a government without expanding those that it seeks to govern seems a bit pointless.

 

The zombie minigame hardly counts as activity on the part of Internal Affairs (plus, since when does IA cover ingame? Curious about that actually), especially when looking at its heavy handed handling by the Guardians. (An observation, not a critique.)

 

Has the new newspaper been written up?  Just wondering because all I saw was discussion of the name.

 

I do see that you have been appointing ambassadors, but I am not wholly certain what it is that they are reporting to other regions considering that nothing seems to be happening here at all.  Also, why are we concentrating on the Warzones?  They suck.

 

Posting WA votes in a subforum and getting 2-3 replies and a couple of dozen views (prob from the same 2-3 people replying) doesn't speak volumes to me about that department helping the region much at all.

 

 

Anyway, if you and others are satisfied with the state of affairs here in TWP I guess I am in no position to complain.  'Let them eat cake.'

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I noticed this too...at least activity within "The Voice".

 

But I think if you look outside of The Voice you'll actually see quite a bit of activity. And I'll mention this again that I have come to believe that TWP has turned into a very active onsite community that simply has no need for an active off-site government. 

 

I think this is due to the separation between church and state I mean delegate and offsite. The offsite doesn't regulate the delegate and without said regulation what point is there for an offsite government unless to administrate tasks delegated by the delegate. 

 

I just don't believe there is a need or desire for an offsite bureaucracy within TWP.

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I noticed this too...at least activity within "The Voice".

 

But I think if you look outside of The Voice you'll actually see quite a bit of activity. And I'll mention this again that I have come to believe that TWP has turned into a very active onsite community that simply has no need for an active off-site government. 

 

I think this is due to the separation between church and state I mean delegate and offsite. The offsite doesn't regulate the delegate and without said regulation what point is there for an offsite government unless to administrate tasks delegated by the delegate. 

 

I just don't believe there is a need or desire for an offsite bureaucracy within TWP.

Yes, that is the point I was planning to reach once it was acknowledged that the Voice is dead.

 

As noted by myself (and you and others) in several places, an offsite government without the direct involvement of the Delegate just does not work in a GCR.  It works in UCRs (like The Meritocracy at one point) but it just makes no sense in this context.

 

As far as activity outside of the Voice on this forum is concerned...TWP has the lowest daily post count of any of the feeders, so I will take that statement with a grain of salt.

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If we want the delegate to do more that can happen. I intended to run for advocate next election, once I transition into the delegacy.

My transition has indeed been slow because I had to restart from zero... is not an easy fit tbh.

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I agree with nearly everything said above. However, I am dismayed at the lack of participation in what we do here. It appears as though TWP is not interested in an offsite community. I've seen some criticism, but not too many offers to help from members that do come here.

There is no manual on what to do here. So I've searched the archives and seen what has been done in the past. I've spoken with experienced members about the needs of the job serving TWP.

The Deputy Advocates have been working on their areas. And for the most part have been successful in finding what needs to be done and doing it.

I have consulted with Medio and Ele on nearly everything we've done here. They've both been helpful and had an influence in the business conducted.

If anyone has any suggestions about things that can be done better, please let me know. I want to do right by my region and its citizens. If anyone would like to help, I've got a lot of jobs that need to be done.

Where do we go from here?

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I agree with nearly everything said above. However, I am dismayed at the lack of participation in what we do here. It appears as though TWP is not interested in an offsite community. I've seen some criticism, but not too many offers to help from members that do come here.

I think you have hit the nail in the wall with that observation. Seems like those who criticize are not willing to step up to the plate or offer any solutions that will solve the problem.

 

Where do we go? I think the big thing, as hard as this may sound, is to engage the nations of TWP that are not involved with the voice. How? That is a good question and a question I do not know the answer to.

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That is inaccurate. I served in a Delegate appointed Ministry for a long while and I ran for Advocate last cycle.

In the first instance I was more or less drummed out of office because I sought to help change things here and in the second I was defeated in favor of the current paradigm.

In both instances I, as an active and present part of this community sought to help. Since that time I have observed the post counts in both the Guardians Chamber and the Echo Chamber climb (albeit slowly) while this place and a lot of the rest of the forum has stagnated.

I have received not one PM from any party asking what my thoughts on the situation are even though I do have quite a bit of long term experience on growing communities and making them relevant.

 

At this point, in my opinion, without fundamental changes in how we are doing things, we will continue to stagnate.  It is time to put this experiment of separating the offsite from the onsite to rest.

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He wants to put the Delegate in charge of the off site forum.

 

While I personally think that is a terrible idea, you might want to try it again,  It might work for a while, who knows.

*shrugs* 

It won't do a thing about activity though.  People in TWP are lazy.  As long as we are having fun, we don't care about the structure.  Scrambling up the government yet again, won't bring people in who want to do work.  Because work, is not fun. 

TP found a way to draw people in to their forum with RP.  TWP doesn't like RP because it's too much work.  And frankly, their government is still operating on the backs of the same hand full of people it always has.  Just like TWP.  Just like TSP.  Just like TNP. etc...

 

It's always like that in NS GCRs.  Activity of the "general citizenry" is an illusion.  As far back as the PRP, this same struggle has gone on; How do we solicit more activity and entice more participation?

 

It's about energy levels and persistence.  Nothing will change unless you find at least one person who has the time to devote to the region and the insane level of energy required to drive things by themselves for a couple months.  And even then, when that one person crashes and burns out, the activity will plummet. 

 

Rather than changing the structure of the government again, why not make the forum government interesting and relevant?  Write a controversial law and scream about it on and off site.  Start an interesting project off site and then relentlessly promote it off site.  You can't start somethingand expect people to come on their own.  They need strong, persistent reminders and reasons to break their routines. 

 

Make it fun and they will change their routine to check the forum daily.

Make the forum appear active and they will check the threads once they come to the forum.

 

Everything else is a waste of energy.

 

[/rant]

 

An no.  I will not be the one to drive things.  I'm tired. 

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I disagree with a number of your assertions.

 

Yes, I think the Delegate should be in charge of the offsite government, at least in a head of state fashion, even if not directly head of government.  I believe the two (onsite and offsite) should be linked within a feeder because it makes absolutely no sense for anyone to come here and participate if it has zero influence on the game itself.

 

That said, I do not agree that the same people are running things in other regions.  Yes, TP has had some success in pulling people onto the offsite via RP but I know the Delegate there has never RP'd and doesn't plan to start anytime soon.  Also, while it was handled in a colossally dismal way here, the internal structure of the region there has provided more avenues of activity outside of RP.

 

Also, speaking again of TP, there are a number of people that have never held prominent position within that region now effectively running nearly every department independently of direct Senate control.  I know first hand that the Delegate there is an ideas-guy but has never been the best at putting the rubber to the road when it came to actual work, and yet it seems to be doing just fine.  The Viceroy there, while a longtime member of the region, has been in the Senate for just over a year and has proven himself to be one of the most capable administrators I personally have ever witnessed.  None of the Governors have been in the region for over a year and they run the day to day operations of the Praetorian Guard, the media, the provinces, the RP threads and to a lesser extent at present the military.  All new people running the show and being active without anyone holding their hand and while still maintaining a close connection between the onsite Delegacy and offsite apparatus.

 

That said, there are 5000+ nations in TWP.  I know that we have limited activity here on the forum but is it really because all those nations that just happen to spawn here are inherently lazy?

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[parenthetic comment follows, I don't intend to disrupt this conversation's flow]

 

The opening post (and the follow-up discussion, as well) is useful and I'm glad that That Called the Vlagh initiated it.

And it is useful indeed, because our need for increased participation is a given — irrespective of persons involved or approaches being used.

It is therefore important that we pursue an intense and sustained level of participation even if we have started seeing positive results.

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I think there is a lot of merit in everyone's answers.

Much of TP's activity started with RPing and it worked. THen they tried new things and it worked.And it continues to try new things and it works.

In TWP, we have had in the last year ups and downs in activity, with usually chaos and issues bringing activity and calm and stability bringing inactivity. That of course is a normal thing. We need to find a balance and make it work. The newspaper, the diplo, all seems to lack push. I guess I could give it to them as Delegate once I take over Medio, but is not my job, is the Advocate's job and I know BBB has been trying. He consults me, and Medio, and we try to offer advise. But if I get more involved, it could seem disrespectful towards BBB since I do not hold a position in the Voice.

I'd like to see TWP regain the activity it had during the time me and Llamas used to argue DAILY, without any two people having to antagonize like that again. I know for a fact that is also what URA wanted before going bat-shit stupid. He did it the wrong way. I'd like to try to do it the right way. And within the existing off-site government, by candidating myself as advocate once BBB's turn is over.

I'd also like to help BBB further if he accepts it, but within the organization. Not from outside. But that is something for me and him to discuss privately.

I've been sort of LOAish till today, End of October is a hard month at work. I'm back now.

Let's get this ball rolling? Do I hear SOLUTIONS?

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Based on what you state above, I don't think I have any solutions that will fit what you are seeking to do since my first solution would be to either dissolve the Voice entirely or institute a separation of powers that would keep the Voice as a legislative body within a construct that includes the Delegate and Guardians as a sort of executive branch.

 

I do not personally believe forcing the Delegate to conform to an offsite government is the way to go, but I am just one voice.

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Well, I'm not opposing that idea either. If the people would like that, something that could be easily consulted, I'd be able to work it out too. I just don't feel imposing it will benefit anyone, and hence wouldn't do it.

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Many years ago, TWP rivaled TNP as the most active offsite forum. There were many arguments back then. 

 

To me - the disconnect between delegate and offsite is the reason for little offsite activity.

 

I'm just going to throw this out there. If I was delegate, I would force the offsite government to be an arm of what I'm doing onsite. No if's and's or but's about it. 

 

I think that's the route we should take, imo.

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Many years ago, TWP rivaled TNP as the most active offsite forum. There were many arguments back then. 

 

To me - the disconnect between delegate and offsite is the reason for little offsite activity.

 

I'm just going to throw this out there. If I was delegate, I would force the offsite government to be an arm of what I'm doing onsite. No if's and's or but's about it. 

 

I think that's the route we should take, imo.

 

I would have thought that was plain common sense; if not, what is the point off an off-site forum?

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I would have thought that was plain common sense; if not, what is the point off an off-site forum?

Well, evidently over the last year it has become something of a 'right' of certain parties here that they be completely separate from the onsite governing of the region.  To the point of open revolt in at least one recent occasion.

 

And now, whenever anyone says that they disagree or that things here seem too quiet we get a list of what this or that department is doing behind closed doors which doesn't really address the concerns at all.

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Many years ago, TWP rivaled TNP as the most active offsite forum. There were many arguments back then. 

 

To me - the disconnect between delegate and offsite is the reason for little offsite activity.

 

I'm just going to throw this out there. If I was delegate, I would force the offsite government to be an arm of what I'm doing onsite. No if's and's or but's about it. 

 

I think that's the route we should take, imo.

That is what URA did, remember? ANd it failed horribly even before his DEN madness

I'm ok with the Delegate being Chief Executive, the Guardians being the 'cabinet' and having the Voice be the legislative body.

I like this idea tbh

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