Tweedy Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 .....my three friends, but nothing to boast about, sadly. That Called the Vlagh and North Pacific Spy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 My idea for structure was never really fleshed out, because you people rushed with such ridiculous enthusiasm into Cormac's offsite heavy proposal. Westwind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langburn Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Many years ago, TWP rivaled TNP as the most active offsite forum. There were many arguments back then. To me - the disconnect between delegate and offsite is the reason for little offsite activity. I'm just going to throw this out there. If I was delegate, I would force the offsite government to be an arm of what I'm doing onsite. No if's and's or but's about it. I think that's the route we should take, imo. I firmly agree. I believe we should integrate gameside and forumside further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerboat_Racer Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 when the offsite government attempts to impose its will upon the Delegate, that never works. I'm ok with the Delegate being Chief Executive, the Guardians being the 'cabinet' and having the Voice be the legislative body. I agree with what Eli has proposed, but where would the Deputy Advocate and Assistant DA's fit in under this structure? I think it would help us with running an open government, which in turn, will hopefully drive up participation and activity levels on the off-site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I have an idea of a working structure like that... I'll post tomorrow from pc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) NM Edited November 6, 2015 by That Called the Vlagh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Based on what you state above, I don't think I have any solutions that will fit what you are seeking to do since my first solution would be to either dissolve the Voice entirely or institute a separation of powers that would keep the Voice as a legislative body within a construct that includes the Delegate and Guardians as a sort of executive branch. I do not personally believe forcing the Delegate to conform to an offsite government is the way to go, but I am just one voice. Simple straightforward idea. The Delegate is the Executive Head of Government. The Guardians are the protective body of the Community in-game and continue performing their existing guardianship duties. The Deputy Advocates are written off, and we simply move to a Ministers only system, where the delegate names Ministers for the different executive arms: army, diplo, internal affairs, NS issue, etc. The Advocate remains as the head of The Voice, which takes the form of a legislative regional assembly, and perhaps even a judiciary, should we need it. The system is simple... The advocate is elected by the voice and creates rules and laws for the in-forum community, while the delegate still rules and handles any in-game matters based on Max's laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 The Ministers could appoint assistants couldn't they? Elegarth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Badger Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Sounds reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 The Ministers could appoint assistants couldn't they? Yes, they could organize their staff including assistants/deputies/etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple country Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I prefer the status quo, it is active as it needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Badger Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 My main concern at this time is: how is changing the way the forum government is run going to increase forum activity? Westwind and Elegarth 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 It doesn't necessarily does it either. As I say, whatever you guys decide. If someone wants to formalize a proposal, you can put it to vote. The people who thinks this is a good idea do so cuz they see twp inclined to more in-game than forum activity. In the end, this is the people's choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhang Bhang Duc Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 My main concern at this time is: how is changing the way the forum government is run going to increase forum activity?Aye and there's the rub. As Dark said we're lazy and I don't mean that in a pejorative sense. We like laissez-faire and really only get off our backsides when something really, really annoys us. Our last rogue Delegate being a case in point. Westwind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Aye correct. The only advantage I see with the integrated vs the separated system ia that the delegate always has to be active, yes or yes, for the sake of the position, while the advocate can literally disappear with no issues. However beyond that, the activity of the executive head, there is the same conundrum regarding overall activity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papercuts and Skittles Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Maybe my memory isn't what it used to be, but I kinda feel like we've always had this problem no matter the form of government we had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langburn Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 WA Delegate: Executive Head of State, elected by region's WA members every four months. The Cardinal Guardians: Nominated by the Delegate and confirmed by the Voice The Advocate: Executive Head of Government, appoints Cabinet The Voice: Regional assembly. Has power to remove the Delegate in extraordinary circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkdaddy Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Maybe my memory isn't what it used to be, but I kinda feel like we've always had this problem no matter the form of government we had Way back in the day when TWP had two legislatures and a Mayoral type of thing, offsite activity wasn't a problem. Way back in the day TWP did rival TNP for offsite activity. Changing to onsite supremacy has led to a number of ebbs and flows in activity but it's been a struggle for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 WA Delegate: Executive Head of State, elected by region's WA members every four months. The Cardinal Guardians: Nominated by the Delegate and confirmed by the Voice The Advocate: Executive Head of Government, appoints Cabinet The Voice: Regional assembly. Has power to remove the Delegate in extraordinary circumstances. Regardless of form, the offsite has never had a direct say in the position of the Delegate and I will oppose any change to this. The Delegacy should not be subject to the offsite government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I think most of us or a big portion at least feel the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhang Bhang Duc Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Regardless of form, the offsite has never had a direct say in the position of the Delegate and I will oppose any change to this. The Delegacy should not be subject to the offsite government. Not true. Before Eli ripped up that particular rule book Delegates were elected by the legislature, whatever form that took. Totally agree with your last sentence though and I would not like a return to the "old rules". That Called the Vlagh, Westwind, Elegarth and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Not true. Before Eli ripped up that particular rule book Delegates were elected by the legislature, whatever form that took. Totally agree with your last sentence though and I would not like a return to the "old rules". Oh yes, I had forgotten the old Berm forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 At this point, I honestly think making a change will not change activity, so I think we should rather focus on assisting the Voice do this, than on changing stuff. I'll help BBB, he and I are talking now, and anyone's efforts will also be welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 So, instead of trying something that might gain activity but might fail we are going to just stick with a system that has already failed so that we don't have to work? Makes sense. Is this related to Cormac's article? Seems suspiciously timed to be honest. Surely someone that actively took part in the recent coup of TWP stating something ridiculous about the NPO doesn't make everyone piss their pants behind closed doors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Please proof the system is to be blamed for the lack of activity. If you can show me evidence of it, I'll take care of the rest of your argument, Vlagh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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