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A public apology

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Wouldn't be a TWP thread without a threadjack. Glad that has not changed.

 

But back to the point of this thread, the apology is accepted, but leadership is now needed. 

 

Leadership unfortunately can't come from anyone but the delegate on this because you took the authority away from those who had it. 

 

That's not a judgmental statement but a fact. Now you've got to lead us to the next place and if some people want the offsite government and you don't, well you've got to lead those folks to your way of thinking. :)

 

The delegate seat is weighty.

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There's always more activity when members of TWP and other regions smell trouble. This is mild compared to some years!

I agree.  There were 27 signatories on Ratification Day for the Union.  The current restart has less than half that.

 

I do not believe there is enough activity, even with the 'surge' to maintain the system, which was why it was dissolved to begin with.

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I agree.  There were 27 signatories on Ratification Day for the Union.  The current restart has less than half that.

 

I do not believe there is enough activity, even with the 'surge' to maintain the system, which was why it was dissolved to begin with.

Vlagh, in your opinion what can we do to increase activity?

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I believe that if Russo used his powers given to him by Max, such as sending region-wide telegrams, to promote TWPers into contributing in the new Voice, or at least getting them to join the forum community, then our task to increase activity might be much easier.

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Since my arrival in TWP, I have harboured concerns about the seperation of ingame and offsite. Personally I believe the Delegate should be elected by the Regional Assembly and have thw power to remove the Delegate from power. The current system leaves too much to chance and this has been proven with URAP's recent treachery.

The Cardinal Guardians should become TWP's equivelant of the TNP Security Council, the TSP Committee For State Security, the TEP Viziers, the Osirian Guardians of the Atef and the Lazarene Grand Advisiors, a democratically elected body responsible for the security of the region and answerable to the Regional Assembly. The WA Delegate should be democratically elected by the RA and appoint a Cabinet of Ministers.

The forum and game seperation is confusing and frankly rather annoying.

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I am opposed to that, the Delegate is elected by the WA nations of the region as they should be. if playing fake democracy is what you want join the voice

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Kolmias ... those systems used in other regions that you name were the children of the TWP Guardian system.  We were the first to realize the value of Guardians soon after the Game introduced Influence.  In this forum, the Guardian system was imagined and implemented.  As a Minnow Delegate, I was the first to rely on this new concept.  The other regions emulated TWP after they saw how effective a Guardian system could be.

 

But there is something MORE about our system that may not be true about those others ... we develop a true sense of Community with our Guardians and they are players who can be trusted with the very region, if need be.  Originally, the Delegate chose the Guardians but those chosen proved to be loyal and true and therefore remained.  Over time, others were added.  It is only in the last year that TWP has allowed the Old Guardians to retire and new ones to move up.  URAP's failure coincided with this slippage.  It is a growing pang as old moves to new.  I doubt TWP will ever chose to let Guardians be selected by popularity rather than on trust and loyalty.

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Guardians chosen by popularity is a bad move. 

 

I don't want TNP's system here. I know TNP's system well, I'm currently a court justice and admin on TNP's boards. I'm probably the best (I'll put Vlagh as a distant second) person to compare the two systems. 

 

TWP has a system of trust and providing new people and opportunity to prove themselves. TNPs system has a trust component to it but it's much more fluid in terms of who comes and goes in the TNP Security Council. Yes some members have been there for ages, Flem/Grosse/GBM but others are very new. The level of trust needed to get on the SC is different than the Guardians, imo. 

 

As for in-game and off-site separation that really makes us unique, strong, and not victim to many characterizations of delegates such as "this delegate doesn't have the right to be delegate because of X". Nope, game mechanics settle the delegate and if you want to change a delegate use game mechanics to do it. Thus URA as Cormac is the legit TWP del right now. However, we put Guardians in place to protect us should a delegate wish to move the region in a direction that is bad for the community. Guardians are soldiers really and right now we need them, but we are well prepared for this.

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Guardians chosen by popularity is a bad move. 

 

I don't want TNP's system here. I know TNP's system well, I'm currently a court justice and admin on TNP's boards. I'm probably the best (I'll put Vlagh as a distant second) person to compare the two systems. 

 

TWP has a system of trust and providing new people and opportunity to prove themselves. TNPs system has a trust component to it but it's much more fluid in terms of who comes and goes in the TNP Security Council. Yes some members have been there for ages, Flem/Grosse/GBM but others are very new. The level of trust needed to get on the SC is different than the Guardians, imo. 

 

As for in-game and off-site separation that really makes us unique, strong, and not victim to many characterizations of delegates such as "this delegate doesn't have the right to be delegate because of X". Nope, game mechanics settle the delegate and if you want to change a delegate use game mechanics to do it. Thus URA as Cormac is the legit TWP del right now. However, we put Guardians in place to protect us should a delegate wish to move the region in a direction that is bad for the community. Guardians are soldiers really and right now we need them, but we are well prepared for this.

Considering that the Regional Assembly in TNP has its origins within the North Pacific Directorate and that Gracius Maximus has served in nearly every office within the region I am not so certain I would be a second at all, much less 'distant', since I do have ongoing close diplomatic relations with the Minister.

 

I do not like the separation of onsite and offsite.  I think it is a sham and one that is easily ignored by a Delegate with more resolve than URAP.  The incorporation of the Delegacy in some manner is essential and there is at least one prominent GCR system in place that does not maintain a Guardian-like system, does not have an offsite government that can dictate to the Delegate, and still maintains a strong culture with the Delegate as the head of state and head of government.

 

Coincidentally, I am also uniquely qualified to compare TWP with that system as well.  And it has maintained stability much more effectively and much longer than any of the other GCRs.

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I would agree that TNP drew inspiration from the Guardians when it introduced its Security Council. It never had them be appointees of the Delegate, however.

 

Punkdaddy is right that it's a bit more fluid. In fact, Flemingovia isn't TNPSC, even, and never has been.

 

Current membership:

 

# Nation Endorsements Offsite Forum Member since 1 Novare Res 511 2004 2 McMasterdonia 0 2012 3 Democatic Donkeys 488 2004 4 Grosseschnauzer 506 2004 5 God n Country n Byron 375 2012* 6 Former English Colony 449 2004 7 Great Bights Mum 359 2003 8 General COE 366 2012 9 Malvad 347 2012 10 SillyString 609 2013** 11 Territorio di Nessuno 424 2014 12 Plembobria 439 2014

 

*Lord Byron joined the forum in 2012, God N Country N Byron joined the region in 2011.

**SillyString was registered in 2013, but Astarial had been a part of the IRC community for some time before this

 

Edit: WTF in my input box that was a pretty table :(

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I would agree that TNP drew inspiration from the Guardians when it introduced its Security Council. It never had them be appointees of the Delegate, however.

 

Punkdaddy is right that it's a bit more fluid. In fact, Flemingovia isn't TNPSC, even, and never has been.

Are you referring to Security Council 2.0 in TNP?  Because TNP had a Security Council long before TWP had Guardians.  And I seem to remember the discussion around your amendments not having anything to do with TWP at all, but as a 'home-grown' change to an existing structure to account for the introduction of Influence.  At least that is how it reads on TNP's forum archive thread about it.

 

I am all for supporting the past and the legacy of TWP, but as with most old regions, we sometimes generate credit for innovation amongst ourselves where none is warranted.

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Are you referring to Security Council 2.0 in TNP?  Because TNP had a Security Council long before TWP had Guardians.  And I seem to remember the discussion around your amendments not having anything to do with TWP at all, but as a 'home-grown' change to an existing structure to account for the introduction of Influence.  At least that is how it reads on TNP's forum archive thread about it.

 

I am all for supporting the past and the legacy of TWP, but as with most old regions, we sometimes generate credit for innovation amongst ourselves where none is warranted.

Security council 2.0 (as you say) was created after the previous Security Council had been abolished for several months.

The group of people that drafted the initial proposal definitely had TWP on their minds. I should know, I was one of them. Credit should be given of course to The Minister for drafting the revised proposal which was finally palatable to a sufficient consensus in TNP, which was as a result ultimately better, I think, than the original proposal.

I'd had similar ideas myself, prior to TAO's introduction of the Guardians in TWP, but my thoughts were influenced in their further development by that approach, and the notion of instituting "Guardians" specifically, with the comparison drawn to TWP, was a subject of discussion during the war with the Crimson Order.

(back to the subject of trust)

There are of course two different levels of trust to measure: how much guardians trust one another, and how much the regional public does.

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