Rebellion

[Drachmaland]

Any suggestions?

 

PS I mean, other than fatalism.

[Darkesia]

It's not as hard as it is in the summer, Hariko. I promise. An organized, persistently cheerful effort always works.

[Hariko]

It's not as hard as it is in the summer, Hariko. I promise. An organized, persistently cheerful effort always works.

 

It better not. I wanted to tear my hair out.

[Drachmaland]

Hair is overrated anyhow. 

[Elegarth]

I said is hard, is not impossible. I'm willing to organize or help organize other TWPians willing to try, but I also want to have time to reshuffle the government structure and the voice, I require some patience guys. But I'll be more than willing to assist you!!!!

[Big Bad Badger]

I agree with Dark and Drach.

Furthermore,Hari was a great example. He was active on the forum, playing games. But it takes more. We need al of the leadership on. The past few days are a great example. The clubhouse section has been booming.

Recruitment takes time, but a concerted, enthuiastic effort will be successful.

It starts with those of us active now! Let's grow this thing. Let's have fun and build something we can be proud of!

[URAP]

After a long and stressful day, the is the most uplifting thing I've seen in some time.

We'll pull out, guys. It'll take some elbow grease, but it'll happen.

[Malviet]

May I remind you of an old saying from Korea: 'A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.', which means that a small effort can achieve great things.

Remember when Medio sent a regional telegram telling us to join the FA department, shortly after the government was revamped? There was a boom of new players applying for both ambassadorship and membership in the Voice, and I believe that was how many people who are now active here, including me, Drak, BBB, Fujai, and many others, got to know the community here.

Yes, recruitment is hard. It may take a hell lot of our precious time. But all it takes could be a single telegram.

Edit: Ninja'd by Russo. Argh!

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I miss Indycar Racing.

He was good - top bloke.

 

Well this is encouraging.  Ideas from the citizens.  The Delegate and Guardians sounding like they're listening and willing to work on/improve the systems we have.

 

Fundamentally I am not against dissolving a system of government - but not until it has been shown to be unworkable.  And an agreed path forward from that position is also required, not one that's imposed and which the citizens of TWP have no stake in.

[Drachmaland]

Well this is encouraging.  Ideas from the citizens.

 

Our ideas would have been expressed earlier, if we had been asked earlier.

[Elegarth]

Aa a note to your comment Drach, there is a bit where you are AWFULLY wrong: waiting to be asked...

You should ALWAYS bring forth any idea that you think is worthy of consideration

[Malviet]

As a note to YOUR comment, Ele, may I rephrase what Drak said...

"Our ideas would have been expressed earlier, IF there was anybody listening."

The absence of the leadership's attention has become a rather devastating effect on our current circumstances, I think.

[Drachmaland]

Aa a note to your comment Drach, there is a bit where you are AWFULLY wrong: waiting to be asked...

You should ALWAYS bring forth any idea that you think is worthy of consideration

 

With all due respect, Ele, please don't rush to conclusions — especially when these conclusions come down to a negative comment in all-caps. And when these conclusions don't (and cannot) take into account pieces of communication that have been exchanged in private, via TG's in NS and messages here:

• Like e.g. the fact that I was told 13 days ago by URA that there are governmental changes eminent (after a rather long period of radio silence from TWP leadership to a message of mine regarding things getting stale in the military area, along with questions/proposals). After that, I obviously decided to wait and see what'll happen, before making any further specific suggestions.
• Or like the fact that we Ambassadors had made it clear (in the relevant thread here) that it's not a good sign towards other regions when we don't issue Updates, but we were once again told to wait for newer developments.
• Or like the fact that I personally started a thread here about nations' languages, and Hariko another one regarding factbooks, with the explicit intent to boost new-nations retention and participation.
• Or like the fact that, 16 days ago, puzzled by URA's initiative to ask about a flag change before (and without) linking such an idea to some specific and substantial change of course (or something similar) in TWP, I wrote: "[...] If the 'new era' is a chocolate cake then the new flag is the cherries on top of it. And what I mean by this is that we first need the important part (the chocolate cake), with a clear and straightforward declaration about it that will unite us all (and this is key!), and then we can adorn and top it with a new flag representing the new era launch. First comes what we want to achieve (and why), then a regionwide consensus over the scope and the means, and finally the tools. A new scenery and flag is a tool. If it helps in uniting the region and our achieving the goal, then it is good. Otherwise, it’s not. [...] There isn't a thread for this discussion in our offsite forums — and it should." https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=13432325
• Or like the fact that, before we had the chance to get a feeling of HOW things work around here, so that we can think of better and improved ways WITHIN the established frame of TWP governance to suggest, PD announces that the whole Voice will be built from ground up — so, once again, the only way was to submit our candidacies and wait to be appointed (and to know who's been appointed in an area where we had ideas to offer).
• Or like the fact that we get a TG from URA 3½ days ago that one of the new Governors will be working with Reçu, and then just after that Reçu resigns.

 

We, the newer active TWP members, had started participating in off-site activities (e.g. embassies, the military etc.), with the deeply-rooted, well-established and best-indented goal of getting first of feeling of what's happening around TWP (and of what's expected from us), and then to participate as well as bring feedback along with new ideas to the table. I'm in TWP since June 27, 2015 — therefore I know about TWP only what I've been experiencing these 69 days. I don't know who likes whom or what grudges might still be in the air. But I know extremely well that the latest lot of TWP actives is of exceptionally high quality. And that this lot can easily become discouraged and/or lost, if we keep receiving contradictory or unclear signals for our direction — because we ourselves cannot make TWP take off by pushing it on our own only; there's a pilot and the rest of the 'official' cabin crew, and we have to rest assured we don't push in vain. And we can only get the assurance that we don't push in vain, through the actions, decisions and guidance of this TWP 'flight crew'. And this flight crew should by no means transfer their own responsibilities on our backs.

 

@URA, again with all due respect: Announce a time and date when the new TWP governance scheme assignments will be officially announced, and when assumed. If you lack one or more positions, move on with the ones you've got now, and fill in the blanks later down the track. Prove to us that Mal's most accurate comment will be no longer a reality, and that the WP leadership is all ears from now on.

[Malviet]

Note to all sentient species: Never ever piss off or annoy a Greek. Those Mediterranean folks are (Edit: passionate).

[Drachmaland]

Those Mediterranean folks are hot-blooded.

 

I believe the word you're looking for is 'passionate'.

[Malviet]

Fine then, my friend.

[Elegarth]

And yet you are still wrong, man. And my comment remains. I'll expand later, I just arrived from the airport but, honestly, is very easy to "blame", is always the east way out of responsibility. Here is a forum where ideas can be presented for the consideration of ANYONE. So all your points, while valid, don't hide the fact that many else still waited for others to do. The first one who acted was PD whose leave of absence ended about three days before mine.

I've asked URA to allow me to put up a formal proposal to the guardians and the people trying to mix some of the things URA wants with the voice and the people.

I can't do it right now cuz as I say, I need some sleep, spent last hours at the airport. Once this proposal is out, just shoot it with all your ideas - without expecting an invitation, that's what the forum is for.

Also, remember the only constant in life is change, why would you wait for it to happen??? Ia always happening.

Again, if I sound harsh, don't take it so, I'm just too run down to transliterate my attempted tone from Spanish to English with how tired I am. Been up for 30 something hours.

Cheers.

[Drachmaland]

Get your much needed rest, Ele, but it was you who took my comment as a "blame".

And don't get me started with responsibility, all members of the WP are not equal — that's what the various ranks are for.

 

As Yy says, "it takes a village". Well, I and numerous others have been working, really working, at the RMB and in offsite — to build and maintain an active, inviting and positive atmosphere. Where were the "awfully-wrong" blamers all this time?

And are you sure you read my post? Didn't you notice comms being initiated weeks ago? Where on earth did you see that "many else still waited for others to do"?

Look, we were talking. We weren't immobilized, observing life passing by. I really don't know where you found all these to accuse us of!

And you didn't hear us complaining, while we were working the RMB. But we've been tolling the bell in various ways, for the WP leadership to wake up. And now that finally the awakening time has come, you're also blaming the alarm clock for not showing enough initiative!

 

Look, you are (not only you, Ele — all you's who are in the lead) experienced and grown-up enough to understand that, when you have something beneficial getting born at last, it's mature to welcome it and not transfer blame by finger-pointing people who are at an inferior position (in terms of rank, experience or duties). True leaders lead, they don't blame. If someone in a team feels that initiatives are not encouraged, cultivated or given proper attention, and this gets noticed by the team's leader, then a true leader would say "sorry I hadn't made that clear enough" and move on — (s)he won't chastise their team.

When a man points a finger at someone else, he should remember that four of his fingers are pointing at himself.

 

Now, go get some rest, we've got a whole lot of new, wonderful things to create here in TWP.

[Elegarth]

I dont think you know any of me to judge how grown or not I am kiddo.

[Drachmaland]

See, again you take personal something that wasn't intended as such — and you once again make sure that you add a patronizing/superiority comment ("kiddo").

 

So, let me try to explain what I said: "you are experienced and grown-up enough to understand that..." means that I regard you as MORE experienced and MORE mature than me.

[Fratellnoir]

I believe citizenship shpuld be tightened as well as we should follow the example of other feeders and sinkers. Residents will have to apply on the forums to be a citizen and they will be automatically made a member of the Regional Assembly.

 

TSP's that-a-way >

[Pestarzt]

This issue seems old hat: there is no elegant solution to a poorly defined problem. What do you guys think the goal of government in TWP is, at a most basic level? What will change now?

 

Just food for thought.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

TSP's that-a-way >

We've been that way ourselves in the past. Thankfully we moved on.

[Fujai]

This issue seems old hat: there is no elegant solution to a poorly defined problem. What do you guys think the goal of government in TWP is, at a most basic level? What will change now?

 

Just food for thought.

To be perfectly frank, the government should involve everyone in a positive manner.  Currently, not everyone is as involved as they might like to be, and some of us feel underrepresented.  This can be anyone's fault, everyone's fault, or no one's fault.  That doesn't matter.  We can point fingers all day and it will get us nowhere.  Some say that the current leadership should be more accommodating, open, and active.  Others say that everyone else should have been doing more.  In reality, it was probably a bit of both, plus some other assorted reasons.  We should get to the meat and potatoes of what was fundamentally wrong with the last government, and try to fix it.

 

These are some of the things I believe the government should incorporate:

• Having no requirements to be in the legislature (or to be a citizen).
• Having few appointments, and as many elections as possible, which can help get new people in leadership.
• Having a more transparent government.
• Having as few grey areas as possible with explanations of how things work so there is as little confusion as possible.
• Utilizing a massive recruitment operation to bring in more members.
• Being friendly towards everyone, and answering all questions without condescension.
• A completely independent forum government.
• Having a government formed by the people, not forced upon them by a select few.

[URAP]

Thanks to Pes for th contributions.