NS Influence Change in TWP and all GCR's

[punkdaddy]

Do it, man!!

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I wouldn't have a platform, apart from sending Vlagh for a drink at Kandarin's.  And to be honest RL is my problem - I would not be a good Delegate because I'm not around enough.  Seriously I was glad to stand against ED and lose to the better person.  I really wouldn't like to leave TWP in my hands - I just like to quietly grumble about not being Delegate.  It's part of my character.

 

But thank you, my friends, for your support.  However, I'm really best suited to third spear carrier on the right, you know the one, mentioned in dispatches as "Always moaning".

[alard]

I'm new to the game.  I appreciate all the experts here who have multi year game perspective and an in-depth understanding of what's at stake, and I support your efforts.  Needless to say, I am aware of the extent of my ignorance on the game and subject at hand yet still would like to offer my opinion & to contribute my part. 

 

Change has a ring of progress and sounds good if the intent is to improve, but not all changes achieve the desired effect.

Regarding Influence cap: I hope you frown on notion of this cap which is unfair, why hold anyone down and relegate them to obscurity?  That's a solid prescription to discourage active participation.  (I doubt this is the goal, but sounds like a result).   Every player thrives on feeling important (having real weight) even if they're not a delegate etc.  Instead of an influence cap, if only nations could voluntarily donate influence for administrative use by delegates, guardians, officers etc, rather than being arbitrarily denied their naturally accrued influence, the game will be more engaging, fair and fun.  That said, I would encourage to levy the said cap against passive nations that don't endorse the delegate & guardians and are not WA & regional government members.  Carrot and stick approach not just stick.

Regarding Endorsement cap: I understand the tier system discussed earlier and support it.  In my humble view:

Tier 1 (If did not endo delegate) - Cap 2

Tier 2 (If endo del & all guardians & is WA member) - Cap 50

Tier 3 (If gov't participant) - Cap 100

Tier 4 (If gov't officer) - 150

Tier 5 (Guardian et al) - Uncapped

Another concern, if one passively exceeds the cap are they banjected (against their will)?  Doesn't this undermine the fabric & strength of the community?

Thank you for your time, consideration and your efforts to truly improve the experience for all participants!

[Yy4u]

It is unlikely that it is passively that one would surpass the cap. Active endo-tarting is always involved in such events. If one is past the cap, they are asked(via telegram) to lower their level voluntarily. If this does not work or is ignored, the nations that have endorsed the offender are telegrammed and asked directly to remove their endorsements. Ejection is usually a last resort.

[Westwind]

That's a solid prescription to discourage active participation. (I doubt this is the goal, but sounds like a result).

 

 

Unfortunately, that is the nature of Game Mechanics.  Influence was established in NationStates in 2006, and had a dramatically negative effect on overall game participation.  And as it has been allowed to grow unchecked for seven years, old inactive player nations are able to gather levels of Influence that makes them untouchable. And with a large number of endorsements, an outside army could come into the region and endorse that nation into the Delegacy, and the Delegate would be unable to remove them.  We cetainly don't want other regions to have the ability to change our delegacy in that manner, thus we the players take a degree of control over the accumulation of Influence.  I've always been opposed to Influence, but Max Barry refuses to remove it.  This proposed change in how Influence in calculated is a major concession, and I'm pleased to see it.  It will give newer players a better opportunity to rise through the ranks of Influence much more quickly in the Game Created Regions.  And we really would love to see 'new blood' reinvigorate the game.

 

 if only nations could voluntarily donate influence for administrative use

 

 

That would be interesting, but it's simply not possible as the game mechanics are designed.  As it is, one gives Influence by giving endorsements.  The more endorsements a nation has, the more Influence they gain daily. But you cannot share your Influence with another nation.

 

Yy's explaination concerning those that exceed the cap is accurate.  There are times when players deliberately test the endorsement caps to see if the Delegate is paying attention.  If the Delegate isn't paying attention, they will try to steal the Delegacy for themselves with no concern for the well being of the region and its community.  When someone is spotted swapping like that (endotarting), they will receive a warning, but their opportunity to rectify the situation will be short.  It only takes one update (12 hours) at most to leave the region and return with all endorsements removed.  A nation showing such disregard is a threat, and will be removed.

 

Inadvertantly passing the cap can occur, but I noticed when a nation is approaching the cap, and contact them before it happens to remind them of the cap, and provide information on what they can do to prevent themselves from exceeding the cap.  If after several contacts the nation is unwilling to comply and exceed the cap, I can eject the nation just before update, so that they are free to return afterwards.  Spending an update outside the region will remove all endorsements.  If they are beligerent about the situation, I will simply ban them outright.

 

The cap as it stands requires a bit of work to attain.  So casual endorsement swapping is not going to be curtailed by the cap.  Significant casual swapping will get you to the 50 endorsement level, more takes more attention to gain.  Adding a low cap for those that fail to endorse the Delegate is a fair burden.  And if a 'government level' cap will encourage government participation in order to be allowed more endorsements, all the better for our region and community.

[TAO]

I wonder if the influence changes will alter CTE nations.  Will resurrected nations return with all the accrued influence at the time of CTE still intact?  I have always hated that glitch in the system.

[Darkesia]

They actually stopped that. But the influence loss is slow while they are CTE. Still, better than it used to be, when it was legitimate strategy to let a puppet CTE after accumulating influence for use later.

[Westwind]

True.  AGP had lost most of it's prior Influence when I returned again.

[Westwind]

If anyone has further comments on this, please add them soon.  It is my intention to set polilcy by the end of the month.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

My 2 pence worth. I don't like the tier system.  I think it should be a flat rate for all WA nations except the Guardians.  Harsh? Yes, but until we see how the changes to influence affect the game mechanics I think we should play it safe.

 

We can change the system later if necessary.

 

That is all.

[Mediobogdum]

My final suggestion after looking at the traffic on this subject is:

 

Level 1: Not endorsing Guardian and all Delegates - 15 endorsments

Level 2: Endorsing Guardian and all Delegates - 45 endorsements

Level 3: Level 2 requirements + active Government participation and active RMB participation - 75 endorsments

Level 4: Level 3 requirements + being a Government Officer - 110 endorsements

Level 5: Level 4 requirements + being the Delegate or a Guardian - Uncapped 

 

One problem with the phrase "active" is who defines just how many postings etc are sufficient to meet the requirement.  A small Government responsibility which would require a review to be carried out on a monthly or 3 month basis to keep nations in check, or to allow them to gain duly earned fluence?

 

Medio

[Libetarian Republics]

A high endorsement cap protects us from internal threats

 

A low endorsement cap protects us from external threats.

 

I'm all for having a higher endorsement cap for those who are more involved but the fact is that there are a ton of The West Pacific natives that aren't as involved but shouldn't be subjected to a low endorsement cap. 

[Consular]

My final suggestion after looking at the traffic on this subject is:

 

Level 1: Not endorsing Guardian and all Delegates - 15 endorsments

Level 2: Endorsing Guardian and all Delegates - 45 endorsements

Level 3: Level 2 requirements + active Government participation and active RMB participation - 75 endorsments

Level 4: Level 3 requirements + being a Government Officer - 110 endorsements

Level 5: Level 4 requirements + being the Delegate or a Guardian - Uncapped 

 

Medio's tiers seem good to me, though I would be inclined to leave government officer at 100, not 110. That might just be because of my fondness for well rounded numbers however.

[Westwind]

BBD, what would you suggest setting a flat rate cap at ?

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I'd say 80.  I'm guessing that the vast majority of WAs in TWP are well below this limit.  Gives those who want to gain a few endos the opportunity to do so, without becoming a threat to the Delegate.  And those that do exceed it can be seen as a clear and present danger.

 

I don't like the tiers system because it will be difficult to monitor and enforce in my opinion.

[Eli]

I don't care for the tiers either.

 

 

One for Guardians and one for everyone else far enough apart that we can manage the ascension of players in the region as they learn and assume leadership roles.

[Consular]

If it's a flat rate you want, I'd probably put it a bit lower, at say 50, at least until you can study the effects of the New system a bit.

[Westwind]

THIS CHANGE HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED

We won't divulge implementation details, but here are some (rough) characteristics:

- a nation which gains influence at a consistent rate will stabilize with roughly 6 months worth of influence. At that point influence expires at about the same rate as it is gained.

- spending influence at that time means one replenishes the spent influence in subsequent updates.

- non-wa or low-endorsement nations do gain, end get to keep, up to a higher level of influence. Think of, roughly, what a nation would have with 10 endorsements.

- extremely high-influence nations will see their influence drop gradually over time. No sudden changes, be it now or ~6 months from now.

Ballotonia

and

 

The model for this change is influence expiring after 6 months. So, roughly 6 months from now there will be no sign left at all of the current extremely high influence levels in feeders and sinkers.

 

[Darkesia]

I'm thinking if we want to get rid of any trouble makers, it needs to be done now.  And that cap needs to be set at ten ish endos since that seems to be the target the mechanics are set at.  Apparently even the non-WA nations will gain enough influence to mimick 10 endos,so there is no sense in setting the base cap less than ten. 

 

It's time for a slingshotor two to clean up the region while we still have the capability.

 

Frankly, if it was my big chair, I would make endorsing the delegate and guardians mandatory on pain of ejection.  But then again, I am quite the totalitarian monster when it comes down to it.

[Westwind]

 I would make endorsing the delegate and guardians mandatory on pain of ejection.

 

 

*chuckles*  There is a certain temptation to my darker instincts there. *resists his inner Crimson King * 

 

Thank you all for your input, I appreciate it.  I will set policy on the cap shortly.  I noticed my own Influence has dropped a point already.  I will discuss any possibilities for the use of slingshot with the Guardians separately.

 

Expect two tiers, with Guardians uncapped. 

 

A higher cap for government participation is interesting, but the realities of current government participation doesn't show a need for it.  The concept is something we can continue to consider though.  As Dark said, that would bring the offsite into the ingame. On the other hand, it could be a payment for services rendered to the region, both ingame and as a community. 

 

It'll be interesting to see where the Influence changes lead us six months from now.

[Mediobogdum]

Darkesia said:

 

" I would make endorsing the delegate and guardians mandatory on pain of ejection." 

 

My sentiments precisely.

 

Medio

[Intelligent Holograms]

I wouldn't on the grounds that TWP is supposed to be a bastion of sovereignty, both regional and national. I'd also question how difficult it would be to enforce.

[punkdaddy]

"Goon Squad"

 

This name shall take over TWP!!

 

...they are coming!!

 

/sidetrack

[Westwind]

*chuckles*  TWP is indeed a respector of sovereignty, and that includes the sovereignty of Influence, and Administrative authority.

 

I have delayed due to RL matters taking my time and attention.  I'll try to have new policy posted today.

[TAO]

I agree with sling-shoting a few out of the region and re-starting this new wave of influence with a cleaner and leaner regional influence slate.  Will high profile removals cause a stir? Sure will ... but it also gives us a test of the boundaries of the new system.