That Called the Vlagh Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 If that is correct (that you are choosing to ignore my choice in gameplay) then you are willing to accept the opposite side of that coin as well, correct? So basically, using your gameplay logic, several of you have decided to systematically alienate and insult the leader of an allied region without cause or justification. Good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I can't speak for the others, but I'm not in any government positions anywhere, so I am free to alienate pretty much everyone. That said I think I said somewhere that I personally have nothing against you. I also don't think I've said anywhere that you're using your position here to achieve NPO aims. The dissolution of the offsite government (or attempt at such) was a questionable decision but was made by the Delegate, not you, and I've not said to the contrary. So I'm not sure what I personally have done to alienate you beyond disagreeing with duality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I can't speak for the others, but I'm not in any government positions anywhere, so I am free to alienate pretty much everyone. That said I think I said somewhere that I personally have nothing against you. I also don't think I've said anywhere that you're using your position here to achieve NPO aims. The dissolution of the offsite government (or attempt at such) was a questionable decision but was made by the Delegate, not you, and I've not said to the contrary. So I'm not sure what I personally have done to alienate you beyond disagreeing with duality. You, and others, have decided to make issue of my association with the NPO as one of the reasons the method the Delegate used to dissolve the government 'looked bad'. How? I am not the only player in NS that maintains position in multiple regions. If the Delegate of TNP or any of the other feeders performed a similar legally supported action within another government that they are a part of I highly doubt such an issue would have been raised. Hell, Westwind is on his high horse here for some reason when he set up a dictatorship here while simultaneously maintaining leadership in a large defender region that supposedly opposed similar institutions elsewhere. Hypocrisy at its best. The fact is that TWP is allied to the Pacific so I can not understand the concern at all, much less the need to point to it as an issue that would somehow degrade the position of the sitting Delegate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Why don't you quote to me where I've taken issue with your association with the NPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 http://www.westpacific.org/forums/index.php?/topic/248-what-do-you-want-from-your-delegate/page-5#entry35455 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 And which part of that post was taking issue with your association with the NPO? They are the same person, that is the end of that for all practical purposes. There is no such thing as 'subject to duality'. Duality is not a special status that gives protection or anything ridiculous like that. Most players don't even recognise it as a valid thing these days. Besides, as Westwind noted it's all about politics. Regardless of whether Vlagh acts independently of the NPO Emperor's ambitions or not, you are still allowing the person who is simultaneously the NPO Emperor to dissolve the civilian government in TWP. Just think about how that looks, and it might explain the surge in anti-NPO sentiment that Elegarth is trying so desperately to dismiss. I said you and the Emperor are the same person. That is a simple fact. I didn't say you were acting for the NPO, I said it didn't matter if you were -- what mattered was whether others perceived that. I did not say I myself perceived that. You certainly have the right to play that way and I don't begrudge you it. But people get to have opinions on that style of playing too, and said style very much does make you just as vulnerable to accusations of influence, just as vulnerable (in my opinion more so) than players who are the same everywhere. This was a comment on duality. I said duality does not make you immune to accusations. I did not accuse you. I think your comment on alienation is just an attempt at redirection here, and not a very subtle one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 First, I have been very clear that it isn't just you. But, you do comment on 'how it looks' to have me as a player that happens to have position elsewhere (not unlike quite a few people here) act within the capacity of my legal role within the government of TWP. You go on to make indirect claims that there is an increase in anti-NPO sentiment here, which is only being spouted by a very small majority and is also focused upon the hypocritical position that I am somehow different than every other player in NS that maintains multiple roles in various regions. Is TWP no longer a friend of the Pacific? I would think I was having this conversation in TSP or Lazarus given the positions being expressed on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 But you've also been clear that I've been part of it, when I've been explicitly avoiding placing any blame on you at all. As for how it looks, I'm just echoing the voices of those who have raised issue. I only really felt the need to do so because Elegarth was rather offhandedly dismissing them, and I felt they deserved a tad better than that. I don't think I was out of place to say there has been an increase in these complaints -- there have been an uncharacteristically large amount since the Voice or whatever it's called was dissolved. I suppose the difference between you and every other person in NS, is you are the leader of a regime that has been through some rather controversial events lately, specifically ones that involved deliberate and calculated attempts to remove the sovereignty of another GCR. Despite the friendship between our regions that probably makes some people a tad nervous. I'm not going to deal with that last line, since it's just an attempt to extrapolate this issue into something it's not. Malviet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Actually, it isn't an extrapolation at all. Since you and others have decided to be dismissive of my position on separation I am taking the comments directed toward me as a personal and direct assault on the Pacific because as you say, I am the leader of that region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 So you're resorting to using your position in another region, despite your own belief in duality, as a defence for a crime I never actually accused you of. What a strange conversation this is. Malviet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 So you're resorting to using your position in another region, despite your own belief in duality, as a defence for a crime I never actually accused you of. What a strange conversation this is. No, I am adapting my position here to accommodate the position you and others are forcing upon me by continuing to ignore my position on separation. You can not have it both ways. Either you acknowledge my concept of duality or you accept that you and others are alienating the leader of an allied region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fujai Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Stop. If there was NPO influence, it was not made by Vlagh. Our leaders let themselves be influenced by the functioning government of The Pacific. It just so happened that Vlagh was Minister of Legislative RP when the dissolution happened. He was only following direct orders from the Delegate, and he wouldn't do anything without the Delegate's orders. That being said, the Voice should not have been dissolved. That violated the belief of separation between the forum and in-game governments, and it also violated our trust. Drachmaland, Darkesia, URAP and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 No, I am adapting my position here to accommodate the position you and others are forcing upon me by continuing to ignore my position on separation. You can not have it both ways. Either you acknowledge my concept of duality or you accept that you and others are alienating the leader of an allied region. You seem to be on some ridiculous crusade to victimise yourself. Malviet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkesia Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Stop. If there was NPO influence, it was not made by Vlagh. Our leaders let themselves be influenced by the functioning government of The Pacific. It just so happened that Vlagh was Minister of Legislative RP when the dissolution happened. He was only following direct orders from the Delegate, and he wouldn't do anything without the Delegate's orders. That being said, the Voice should not have been dissolved. That violated the belief of separation between the forum and in-game governments, and it also violated our trust. This. Twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 You seem to be on some ridiculous crusade to victimise yourself.Incorrect. For days I have attempted to maintain a discussion within these halls that is completely devoid of my interactions elsewhere, unfortunately, certain parties have refused to engage with me in this manner and have insisted that my OOC activities elsewhere must be considered when addressing my actions here. So, fine. Pierconium, as Delegate of the Pacific and Emperor of the New Pacific Order embodies the region publicly. Since you and others refuse to separate the two then you just accept the consequences of that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fujai Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Vlagh, Mal, others: if you insist on continuing you arguments, please move them somewhere else where the rest of us don't have to watch. I for one am sick and tired of seeing them everywhere. Now stop, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hariko Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 It's over now, Fujai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhang Bhang Duc Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 What do I want from my Delegate - well this: Unfortunately he's not only been at home, he's invited him in for a few beers and then taken him for a slap-up meal at Mrs Miggin's Cake Emporium and Knocking Shoppe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malviet Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 What do I want from our Delegate? To use the powers given to him by Max, such as sending region-wide telegrams, to promote contributing in the Voice, or if that is not sufficient, at least get our fellow TWPers to join the forum community. Mediobogdum and Fujai 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediobogdum Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 What do I want from our Delegate? To use the powers given to him by Max, such as sending region-wide telegrams, to promote contributing in the Voice, or if that is not sufficient, at least get our fellow TWPers to join the forum community. I had sent region-wide tgs for ambassador and TWPAF recruitment during my short time in the chair and there was a reasonable return rate so, let's do it again, ...... and again, ...... and again ...... Fujai, Elegarth and Malviet 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malviet Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I had sent region-wide tgs for ambassador recruitment during my short time in the chair and there was a reasonable return rate so...Yeah, that was when and how I joined the forum community, along with Drach, BBB, Fujai, and many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URAP Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Region wide tg's? Sounds easy enough, if that's what you want. Anything specific you want me to say, or more just "Go check out our shiny forums, we have lots of fun and a government to boot" kinda thing? Darkesia, Mediobogdum and Elegarth 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malviet Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 That would be sufficient, but I'm detecting some sarcasm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URAP Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Any sarcasm delivered was unintentional, sorry. Composing a TG now, I'll get it out by the end of today. Malviet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkdaddy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Ask Medio to send you what I sent him for the TWPAF. That was a good tool and it works. If you send those out twice a month it will be very effective in getting people onto this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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