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Darkesia

On Lazarus: The discomfort factor

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Since the general populace of the region and the community have broken their silence, I feel I can add my voice without causing undue influence. So...

In answer to the question of the day on the RMB:

 

TWP and the NPO have agreed on many things over the years and as a result we have grown close to them and become allies. We agree that the seated Delegate in any region is the legal ruling authority in that region. No matter how that delegate gained the seat and chooses to keep it, once in the seat, TWP, like the NPO, recognizes the in-game authority of the seated Delegate. We do not agree that the Delegate should also rule over the forum communty, however. TWP sees the forum community as it's own viable entity and the home of it's culture over which the Delegate has no direct authority unless specifically granted by the forum community.

 

The Pacific and the PRP/NPO were the first to realize that the culture of a region is as important, if not more important than it's military might. They actively pursued a forum based culture that, at the direction of the Delegate, became the political and cultural juggernaut that can still be seen today. TWP agrees that the culture of a region is it's strength. While TWP has more of a cooperative relationship between it's forum community and the in-game community, we still hold that our culture is what makes us unique and a desirable place to live, work and visit.

 

The NPO has a very high opinion of it's culture, as it should. All regions should have an identity they hold dear and a culture that makes it's members feel welcomed and excited to log in every day. The problem is that the NPO has begun to believe it's culture is best for every region. This makes me increasingly more uncomfortable as time goes by.

 

Years ago, the NPO exported it's culture and it's reach to another game universe. I admit I was part of that expansion and I gleefully took part in building that part of the NPO Empire. Right up until I noticed that the divided attention of it's single head of state was sucking the life out of the region I called home at the time, The Pacific. I left the region under less than happy circumstances (Ask me about that another time). And here we have something happening in Lazarus that makes me dread the future for the region. Their culture has been crushed and they are being homogenized into the NPO's forums. There is no longer a forum community for Lazarus. Nothing to balance the in-game power of the Delegate. There is the silence of a delegate who does not partake in their culture and the shouting of a few in-game players who can barely be heard above the NPO cultural propaganda. This makes me more than uncomfortable. It makes me sad.

 

I don't care who sits in the Delegate's chair in Lazarus, that is an in-game function. I do care immensely that the culture that made Lazarus home to many has vanished and been subverted into something wholly un-Lazarean(?). The in-game construct is there, but there is no soul. It's culturally dead.

 

This "NScultural Imperialism" is where I must step clearly away from the NPO. I can no longer feel assured that any region which comes under it's influence will survive. I cannot in good conscience stay silent and risk having people belive I am ok with it. TWP's culture is what makes us strong and that culture will not be destroyed. Our forum Community is where TWP "lives" and we can't let that Community be crushed out of existence so that the NPO may satisfy it's need to push it's own culture down everyone elses throat.

 

Every region has a right to it's own culture. The NPO took that away from Lazarus. That is what makes me uncomfortable with the NPO's move in Lazarus.

Edited by Darkesia
Spelling,cuz URA

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I must respectfully disagree with some of the conclusions you have reached, madam Delegate.  Of course, this means nothing as I firmly support your rule in TWP without question as the sitting Delegate.

 

But, if an offsite community, which is often a vast minority of the total populace, is displaced, then they are always free to set up a new forum and a new community and/or ingame region that maintains their cultural identity.  The imposition of the Delegate upon the community is specific to the region, not the nations within the region.

 

While I support the idea that TWP maintains a separation between the ingame power of the Delegate and the offsite community that does not make it any better or worse than the NPO (or TNP or TSP or whatever) system of governance.  It is simply different.

 

That the Delegate of Lazarus as decided to align his region with the NPO does not invalidate the offsite community that existed before.  It simply invalidates its right to govern the onsite Delegate seat.

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Unfortuantely in this instance, the forum community that Lazarus had previously linked to it's in-game component was shut down.  That effectively killed the culture.  Yes, they can and hopefully will, build another community forum, but as we have seen, that has as yet been unsucessful (not counting the weird pseudo community run by cormac et al).  The longer it takes to re-establish a singular identity, the more difficult it will become.  And Lazarus will become the same as TP, even sharing it's forum. 

 

The fact that the owner of the previous forum is the one that shut it down, is the only thing that keeps it from being a COPS violation.  But it certainly was a violation of the spirit of COPS.

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Unfortuantely in this instance, the forum community that Lazarus had previously linked to it's in-game component was shut down.  That effectively killed the culture.  Yes, they can and hopefully will, build another community forum, but as we have seen, that has as yet been unsucessful (not counting the weird pseudo community run by cormac et al).  The longer it takes to re-establish a singular identity, the more difficult it will become.  And Lazarus will become the same as TP, even sharing it's forum. 

 

The fact that the owner of the previous forum is the one that shut it down, is the only thing that keeps it from being a COPS violation.  But it certainly was a violation of the spirit of COPS.

I can see your point in regards to the forum shutdown, being subject to such activity myself on occasion 'elsewhere', but the resilience of the community should not be measured in the functionality of the boards, in my opinion.

 

For example, TNP, which is not what I would typically utilize as an example of stability in regards to Delegacy, has maintained a stable offsite community for over a decade even though the Twoslit Experiment summarily shut down their original forum with no warning.  They also preserved through another forum based community usurpation during ALSO and the NPD and in the multitude of 'rogue' Delegacies over the last ten years.  The boards themselves were never the issue.

 

To lay blame for the disruption of the community on the owner of the boards, who was acting well within his own legal rights, ignores the core issue with the PRL to begin with.  If those in opposition to the Delegate can't even get their sh*t together to form a cohesive offsite community in the face of adversity, how do they ever hope to form a legitimate opposition to that Delegate?  

 

In my opinion, we can not blame the Delegate of Lazarus for reaching out to the NPO.  You acknowledge yourself that it is a stable and established culture and community.  The nations of Lazarus deserve an example of a stable culture considering the shambles with which the outgoing government has made of it.

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I've reached out to ask about the forums, and it seems they were brought back online, without anything deleted, a few hours ago: (I'm guessing the timeframe to be honest, I was just told they were open)

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Lazarus/register/

I used to have an account but I've lost the password myself, so I can verify is anything is missed.

I don't think, however, they are planning to use it again, so I honestly don't know if this changes the situation or not :/

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In my opinion, we can not blame the Delegate of Lazarus for reaching out to the NPO.  You acknowledge yourself that it is a stable and established culture and community.  The nations of Lazarus deserve an example of a stable culture considering the shambles with which the outgoing government has made of it.

 

It has been stated unequivically that the Delegate did not reach out to the NPO.  But rather that the PRL was already a planned part of the NPO's insurgence. He was placed in the seat by the NPO.   So, the shambles that were left by the previous Community government was simply the planned dismantling of it.  This is not a viable POV for me, since "Stoic Stu" is not now and never was a participatory member of the community culture.  This is a completely understandable thing, if you take in to account that Krull is the actual leader there and Stu is a placeholder.  As I stated, I don't see anything wrong with that really. 

 

I don't know if there is a recoverable cultural identity in Lazarus any longer.  They have been first mislead and then wiped away.  And it will take a long time for them to find themselves an identity that isn't either NPO or Fake NPO (PRL).  It won't be easy.

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It has been stated unequivically that the Delegate did not reach out to the NPO.  But rather that the PRL was already a planned part of the NPO's insurgence. He was placed in the seat by the NPO.   So, the shambles that were left by the previous Community government was simply the planned dismantling of it.  This is not a viable POV for me, since "Stoic Stu" is not now and never was a participatory member of the community culture.  This is a completely understandable thing, if you take in to account that Krull is the actual leader there and Stu is a placeholder.  As I stated, I don't see anything wrong with that really. 

 

I don't know if there is a recoverable cultural identity in Lazarus any longer.  They have been first mislead and then wiped away.  And it will take a long time for them to find themselves an identity that isn't either NPO or Fake NPO (PRL).  It won't be easy.

While I do have it on good authority that the PRL was indeed a construct of NPO supporters, it was the governmental actions of Funkadelia and some others that led to the current course of action, which is evident in their own blundering to establish a foothold on the community.  The PRL, while potentially heavily associated with the NPO, was its own entity.  Stu has simply righted the course for the nations within the region that do not align themselves with those that attempted to steer the PRL offtrack.

 

The fact that the boards are online and not being used by the 'government-in-exile' underscores this dilemma and further outlines the failings of the PRL.  

 

I do not agree that the culture of Lazarus has been lost.  It has changed over time to what exists today.  It isn't a supplanting of something from the past, it is an evolutionary step towards what has been developed in the present.

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The culture of Lazarus was ranked the highest of any GCR in TRT's issue on the subject last year. Llamas and I can certainly testify that our theme of propaganda and Communism was extremely fun while it lasted, and the region definitely benefited from the amazing amounts of culture we had. Well, depending on how you define culture.

 

Milograd has won a cultural victory!

 

I do not believe we should cooperate with Stujenske's government based purely on formality, policy and precedent. Recognizing the Delegate of a region as legitimate no matter what ignores the opinions of natives, your allies and disregards the R/D game, as regions are raided all the time. Legitimacy doesn't belong in NS, as there is no formal system for legitimacy that applies to regions, only ones that rulers of those regions make, ones that only last as long as they're in power. In a way, you could argue that any Delegate of a region is legitimate, but that would go against everything else that matters, and as such, we shouldn't be talking about legitimacy here. We should be talking about popularity, effectiveness and other desirable traits. The Lazarus that Stujenske has ushered in is that of NPO puppetry, you can almost consider it a raid. He got rid of all the longtime natives that populated the region and completely destroyed his international reputation. Lazarus, for a long time, has been not only a GCR, but a community. One made up of people like Funkadelia, Hobbes, Church of Satan, and even me for a while, and I do hope to rejoin one day. Stujenske destroyed all that progress with the NLO. The community of Lazarus is gone, kicked from their homes. Their culture has been knocked down, the same culture that was widely-renowned as the best in the world.

 

We shouldn't be bringing this down to simple game mechanics. We should be bringing it down to morality, justice and common sense.

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...and yet many try to do just that.

 

My major problem is with the boards being shut down. That's not cool in my book from a "community" perspective. It is correct to say that even if the forum was shut down, if the actual community is strong enough they will build a new one. 

 

That the delegate has decided to go all NLO is also a matter for Lazarus. As I've stated, the danger isn't in what happened the danger is in the implications for other GCRs and our sovereignty. The rhetoric AMOM used can justify the NPO encroaching upon any GCR, at any time, and it would seem likely to happen if it's not already in progress today.

 

Thinking differently is not thinking at all, not to be harsh. 

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AMOM does not represent The Pacific (or Lazarus) based upon my sources.

Rhetoric is often just that, rhetoric. Some spout it better than others but at the end of the day it all amounts to the same thing, just words. I know that his words have caused some concern here, and they have caused concern elsewhere as well, but ultimately AMOM is not Emperor and traditionally as far as the NPO is concerned that is the ultimate authority regardless of what any of their individual members say.

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Community. That's what it's all about.

 

When Stujenske took over Lazarus, he didn't only destroy the PRL, but all the culture and community that went with it. It doesn't simply boil down to game mechanics and the mere changing of the WFE to look different, it's about how Lazarus' vibrant, active community was completely destroyed, and those left exiled.

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If the NPO's narrative is true, then it supports the idea that the "purge" of the imperialists were done to make way for today. Do you admit to doing that?

The imperialists are preying on your false narrative however, because the PRL was not designed after the NPO or the PRP for that matter and I think it is fair to say that I can attest to that.

The PRL was my idea. I brought it up to Milo because I knew that as his thing (TSP coup), and I liked him as a player as well. The government structure was modeled upon the REAL PRC (even the titles are), which I would surmise Milo wasn't very familiar with given his the fake Socialist constitution he used in his TSP coup which was basically a generic NS constitution.

Just because Milo was a NPO fan and wanted to write it in the same style as yours, does not make the model same as the NPO - we had real elections for the legislature, for instance.

So stop acting like it was some kind of NPO brainchild, really.

(Btw hard to believe AMOM doesn't represent the Pacific when he was the first to *officially* announce the NLO. Perhaps you should double check your sources as they may be feeding you another false narrative?)

P.P.S. I really don't wanna talk about this anymore which is why I'm here in TWP, because I think I'm too old and busy for this kind of drama - this is my last post on this. I just thought I had to let out the truth.

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First, be very clear, I have played NS the same way for longer than most here have been in the game. While I may have 'sources' in The Pacific I maintained very different policies in TWP, even if I always support Delegate's rights. I know many disagree with that method of play but when I started it was standard practise and I am nothing if not consistent.

What I can say is that you are correct in that some of the core ideas are yours, but you are incorrect in assuming that the application of those ideas were not being discussed elsewhere behind closed doors from the onset.

As far as AMOM is concerned, simply being the first person to point out a thing does not necessarily give you ownership or authority over that thing. In my opinion, as a citizen of TWP, it looks to me like he spoke out of turn and forced the hand of others that may have preferred a more subtle approach. Just an opinion mind you.

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I'm with Vlagh on this one. Nothing sucks the fun out of the game faster than moralizing.

Just something I want to say: Don't confuse basic politeness and respect for other people and their regions with moralizing. Ike's not trying to act better than you or being too uptight about a game; he's not being a Unibot-like figure and preaching about a narrow worldview while condemning those who don't follow it. He's just pointing out that taking over a region, destroying its culture, and banning residents at random is just being a bit of a douchebag. He won't suffer eternal damnation (Although I'm sure some defenders will disagree with me :P), but it's rude and fails to take other people's desires into account.

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I'm old and tired, an I find the whole thing disapointing, reaching back to the establishment of the PRL. But I am also still not fully up on the situation.

Each region has it's own culture...and cultures. Not all regional cultures are obvious, nor do they all exist on forums. Multiple exist, all should be respected. Here in TWP there have been times we've had more than one government on the same forum.

NPO interest in her fellow GCR's is nothing new. And as Dark said, its branching into that other game was severely detrimental to The Pacific.

It appears the NPO has been using Lazarus as a plaything of their own. (With due respect to Harm) it was obvious from the start of the purge by Faux. And I turned down a treaty with the PRL as they would not respect all aspects of TWP...ingame and offsite. So NPO involvement now shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

That there has been involvement with a forum destroyer is unconscionable. It's the same mistake Gatesville made in Osiris. I expect respect from allies. We voided our treaty as a result. And we have had to take prior issue with statements by AMOM that compromised TWP security.

Disapointing.

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Unless someone in the NPO of higher authority than AMOM posts a clarification of AMOM's retorts, we can only believe that AMOM's comments represent the will of the leadership of the NPO. 

 

I don't know what else we have to contradict that.

To clarify then, AMOM is not a member of the Pacific Senate at all and therefore does not speak for The Pacific at all. AMOM was a member of the Lazarus Senate and since the majority of the NS world seems to think that is somehow below the status of the former then any clarification from any person in the NPO by default supersedes it, which my source certainly is.

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I see that Pierconium is now Regent and that Feux has been banished from the Senate whilst losing the endorsement of Senator Aleisyr, would Vlagh have any insight into that recent turn of events?

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