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Wow...these forums are dead...where is everyone?


Winnipeg

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Is this the end of offsite forums for TWP?  It's so dead around here...  I'm not saying I'm going to do something like pull the plug but I had hoped to see some more activity when I paid for renewal on the forum software...

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I assumed that the lack of activity and content was due to the new nature of the forums, although that clearly isn't the case. It's a shame that the last forums were abandoned due to lack of activity only for the new one to succumb to the same fate.

 

I think that it was a mistake to allow PD and co. to destroy the RA and other legislative parts of TWP, these are the sorts of functions that draw new activity and players to offsite forums. It is this destruction (and the nature of having "guardians" running the show) that I believe to have killed these forums and forum culture in TWP.

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I've always thought that if a WA feeder Delegate doesn't have enough endorsements (endorsements=support of the people) to hold the region by themselves, they don't deserve the delegacy because they lack the support from the people.

 

This also amuses me because Yy has enough endorsements to hold the region, he doesn't need guardians.

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Well if you feel that deeply about the deficiencies of the present system you should gather like-minded members and fight for the system to be changed.  I must agree that at present there is nothing to attain or aspire to for the ordinary member - things are a bit stagnant as a consequence; it used to be static, but now it's become stagnant!  We've got the forum we're happy with now, so all we need to do is get the system we like, surely?

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Indeed. I believe it is time for the wheels of change to begin turning once more. We must either adapt the current system or start anew. One involves compromise but is easier to achieve the other is more likely to work completely in our favour but it will be hard work. There are difficult questions that need to be answered ahead.

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I take some umbridge with being labeled as the one who destroyed the RA. The RA was dead well before I took over from the standpoint that it was ineffectual. If anything the NSR system I established was purposefully to create more legislative discussion. Of all the guardians I most legislating friendly, I'd say by a significant margin at that.

 

I think all of the guardians are open to new suggestions, ideas, and whatnot. We're just not going to be the ones driving the bus.

 

Truthfully, I think you have some of the most unassuming folks as guardians in this region. When I sought to make changes, they went along with it. When ED made changes, that was fine too. And Yy has done his thing.

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I take some umbridge with being labeled as the one who destroyed the RA.

If I'm correct, it was you that proposed "giving up the ghost" that was the RA. Taking umbrage is pointless, it was you that put the forces in motion to disband the RA, effectively turning the TWP into a dictatorship, a nice one but a dictatorship nonetheless. Especially if this:

When I sought to make changes, they [the guardians] went along with it.

is what actually happens.

 

 

The RA was dead well before I took over from the standpoint that it was ineffectual.

 

I am perturbed by the notion that nothing could be done to save or adapt the RA system employed by TWP, as nearly all other regions (feeder, sinker and UCR) have found something for their members to do (I point to your activity in TNP, PD as, surely, your position and title are not the signs of a region that has lost the ability to act). If it was ineffectual, do something to change it instead of simply discarding it as another failed project - you have a strange way of being legislating friendly.

 

 

 

We're just not going to be the ones driving the bus.

 

You don't have to drive the bus, but most people would get out and push if the bus gets stuck in the mud. The way I see it, the bus (to continue your metaphor) is seriously stuck in the mud at the moment and it will take help and work to get it going again. Surely, being TWP's oldest members and guardians, you will help this bus get moving again; surely you will help to get TWP operating again; surely you don't want to see years of TWP history that you all helped to build and make go down the toilet because you couldn't be bothered to do something.

 

Truthfully, I think you have some of the most unassuming folks as guardians in this region.

 

That's great, but they're not doing anything.

 

When I sought to make changes, they went along with it. When ED made changes, that was fine too.

 

I mind keeps coming back to this. This appears, correct me if I'm wrong, to suggest that the people that run TWP simply "go along" with whatever the Delegate wants to do. That's wrong. No wonder TWP has stagnated if the Delegate has sole power over a region of nearly 5000 and a team that simply does what he says; where's the discussion, the innovation?

 

I'm beginning to wonder what the world view of TWP (at the moment) must be.

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Ok - so you're more talking about recent events of 'giving up the ghost', in terms of the RA.

 

The thing is, if people of TWP do not want to legislate one can't force them to legislate. Legislation is an activity that follows other activity. There needs to be things happening, ministers putting forward ideas, etc. in order for there to be something to legislate.

 

Because I'm not just a member of TWP but also a citizen in Osiris and the Attorney General in TNP, I do often here from others what the world thinks about TWP. I'm often asked as well because I'm the most visible (outside of TWP) guardian - though you could argue Westwind on that point.

 

Nonetheless, I often here that Yy is great to work with (he is) but that there is no offsite activity (there isn't much). But most of the guardians post on the RMBs and are a part of the onsite game, and i would guess that my in-game activities are the least of them all as evidenced by my lagging endorsements.

 

I am glad you find fault in the current system as is. The only way to change it is to speak up. As I said, the guardians are not power hungry hordes, I trust our Gaurdians above any other team in this game by country miles. We've got a great delegate in Yy who is just not that into the offsite forum activities but is probably one of the best in-game delegates.

 

But, for us (the gaurdians) the system is working. We have an active delegate and ousting TWP's way of doing things from an external force is nigh unto impossible. I think if you do want some change, and I'd love to see more forum activity, then I think you'll need to instigate things. This conversation is a start.

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I agree, and I think he is instigatin' things.  This is probably the most active non-spam thread on the forum, which is indicative of its necessity.  Any proposed system will most likely have to incorporate the Guardians, but that doesn't mean a new system couldn't, or shouldn't, be proposed.

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@PD: Are you saying that you do not find fault with the current system? The empty forum? The unheard voices of thousands of TWP members? Are you saying that you are glad that the current ineffective system is in place?

 

But, for us (the gaurdians) the system is working.

 

I find fault with this statement due to the fact that there are only 7 guardians yet there are 4'557 TWP nations. No one, save your enclave, has any idea of what's going on and no one can influence the region. This statement shows a level of corruption that I didn't think existed in TWP.

 

@God-Emperor: I believe that this is the beginning of what will eventually lead to a new TWP and I thank you for your support.

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Well it appears my radical idea has been implemented:

http://twp.nosync.org/archives/thread-9838-post-184274.html#pid184274

 

And it wasn't so much radical as me tossing in the towel and saying the gaurdians and delegate rule and no one seems to want to challenge this paradigm, so what's the point of having a constitution?

 

And I'd say today we have no Constitution for the most part. Like I said, i don't think any gaurdian is opposed to change and wouldn't welcome new challenges, it's just that we're probably not going to drive the bus. We've been there done that, have the t-shirts, key chains, etc from times past. In other words, we're old. It will take some new blood to get us off our backsides.

 

EDIT:

Let me update to reflect IH's post

 

I find fault with this statement due to the fact that there are only 7 guardians yet there are 4'557 TWP nations. No one, save your enclave, has any idea of what's going on and no one can influence the region. This statement shows a level of corruption that I didn't think existed in TWP.

 

The 'enclave' as you put it, does know what's going on. But I would say that people outside the 'enclave' can influence the region. You have a voice and you can influence the region. I believe Yy is very responsive to people in-game. I'm saying that TWP is not a democracy and we left behind our legislating when we simply didn't have the membership to sustain activity. Places like TNP and elsewhere have steady activity.

 

The problem with TWP is that none of us dislike each other and we all understand our roles and are comfortable in them. That makes for stagnation. But, as I said, I don't think any of us are averse to change.

Edited by punkdaddy
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