Wow...these forums are dead...where is everyone?

[Crazy Slots]

This is a radical suggestion, and I'm only posting it for rhetorical and thought-provoking purposes: if you can't maintain an active government here, perhaps you could drop it and see what happens. By "drop it," I mean have the guardians drop WA, and announce that TWP is an anarchy that anyone who can garner the support of the masses may lead the region. There are definitely a lot of people out there who would be interested in the opportunity to run a government here, and doing this could potentially pull in a lot of interest internally and externally.

 

It would be like a forced rebirth of sorts. Remember how much interest there was in Osiris and Balder when they didn't have governments? The attempts to organize a government in those regions were run largely overseen by TITO and the UDL because they had to use their WA manpower to prevent any tyrants from appearing, but that wouldn't be needed in TWP because of the influence that the guardians have acquired over the years.

 

The current "old guard" could participate in the new government, but the fact that it "dropped" power in the current one would make it blatantly clear that you guys aren't going to be the active people working in the fields. You have enough experience to work adequately as advisors to the new guard, and this whole endeavor might have some merit as an experiment. The guardians, rather than being expected to put in most of the work, could simply serve as guides and advisors to the new blood, and the guardians would prevent it from rolling onto a dangerous path. If something goes wrong they can jump into action to ensure that order is maintained: no newcomer would have the ability to kick any of you out for years, so any nonsense could be stomped down quickly.

 

If people try to throw the region in a direction that the current guardians don't feel is in the community's best interests, you have more than enough influence necessary to take the region back, and the conflict that would ensue would bring a lot of activity and interest here. If the people who take over don't perform actions that are undesirable, it would fine and you could work from there.

 

Of course, it's also a bit nutty, but that's the fun of it. I'm not posting this to march into TWP, tell you to abolish your government, and insult any of you, by the way: I have the utmost respect for the people and establishment here and simply enjoy discussing unusual ideas and hypotheticals. You're probably some of the few people on NS whom are actually capable of pulling something like this off, too.

[Intelligent Holograms]

It's not a bad idea and it could work. I'm not sure, though, whether or not the Guardians would relinquish power that easily - some have blatantly said that they wouldn't.

[punkdaddy]

Milograd...you could probably convince me of that plan. I like crazy. But, I'd bet a large some of money you'd never be able to convince Eli of such a plan.

 

The guardians have really built something here and just blowing it up to blow it up, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. What I do think makes sense is to invite people to these forums to talk, but let's be clear, the region TWP is not dead - only these forums on. Yy4u is active, talkative, and approachable to new nations. That's what you need in an in-game delegate.

 

He has chosen to spend his time there and I think that's fine. In his post above, he's open to something new. But, anarchy does not seem to be the solution.

[Phanari]

Instead of complaining about the lack of activity, people should make an effort to ameliorate the current condition. When there is little or no activity there is no other way of keeping things running (at whatever level that might be) if no one can be bothered to do anything about it. Just my two cents.

[Intelligent Holograms]

But, I'd bet a large some of money you'd never be able to convince Eli of such a plan.

 

That is the Guardian I was referring to.

 

_____

 

Will talking work though? The previous forum was abandoned due to lack of activity and TWP has been talking (quietly) ever since, but nothing has changed.

There's all sorts of problems with anarchy that couldn't be settled just with the Guardians on stand-by though. TWP would be under constant threat of invasion and where is the line drawn between an anarchic Delegate and an invasion force?

_____

 

@Phanari: You sound like me about a week ago. We are trying to improve the situation; this thread is here to try and find ways of encouraging more activity.

[Crazy Slots]

Milograd...you could probably convince me of that plan. I like crazy. But, I'd bet a large some of money you'd never be able to convince Eli of such a plan.

 

The guardians have really built something here and just blowing it up to blow it up, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. What I do think makes sense is to invite people to these forums to talk, but let's be clear, the region TWP is not dead - only these forums on. Yy4u is active, talkative, and approachable to new nations. That's what you need in an in-game delegate.

 

He has chosen to spend his time there and I think that's fine. In his post above, he's open to something new. But, anarchy does not seem to be the solution.

The beauty of the beast is that Eli et al are absolutely capable of restoring this if need be, and there is nothing to say that Yy4u couldn't run in a delegacy election in the "new government." He, like you said, is active, talkative, and approachable to new nations, and that makes him a great candidate for the position: this idea would mostly address the problems that come from the people who agree that they aren't active enough to really run the show for now.

 

I agree that TWP isn't dead, and that only the forums are. That is precisely why an appeal to the in-game region like this would be made. Delegacy changes, the RMB discussion that would ensue, et cetera would catch their attention. Furthermore, you could always use the "mass telegram" feature that is now available to delegates to inform the masses of this effort in hopes of intriguing their interest. The people are there—the question is whether or not they'll be given an intriguing project to contribute to.

 

I have observed that recruiting people to "talk on the forums" is always a good idea, but the forums need something that intrigues people to stick around and get involved more extensively. I feel that something like this could be the trick. I know you remember the coup by Devonitians in TSP, and there were a lot of people who got involved there at that time; of course, some of them were there to defend the region, but a lot of them got involved because they were interested in shaping a community that was obviously looking to move forward in the aftermath of the chaos. You could possibly replicate that effect in TWP but without having to sacrifice stability or cause true chaos, insofar as you could plan the resignations and subsequent re-tarting* so that it is clear that you aren't going to tolerate nonsense.

 

NOTE: *Re-tarting would be done for the sake of showing people that you guys aren't going to tolerate nonsense. You want an active community and fresh ideas, not any hijinks. You wouldn't jump back up to your old totals, of course, but you would aim to have a relatively average amount of endorsements. 

[Crazy Slots]

This contained "anarchy" would only last until people stepped up to try to replace it with something, and that's something that would eventually happen. It always has in the past.

 

Will talking work though? The previous forum was abandoned due to lack of activity and TWP has been talking (quietly) ever since, but nothing has changed.

There's all sorts of problems with anarchy that couldn't be settled just with the Guardians on stand-by though. TWP would be under constant threat of invasion and where is the line drawn between an anarchic Delegate and an invasion force?

A constant threat of invasion, believe it or not, can do wonders for activity: the thing that really matters is that no long-term damage can possibly be done. The guardians and the current distribution of influence in TWP both ensure that no long-term trouble can occur as a result of this experiment, and the answer to the question you asked is something that the guardians would have to decide for themselves.

 

As for Eli, I know he is a competent player who is knowledgable about this region's workings and the game as a whole, and perhaps he'd be willing to buy into this experiment if he understands that it can be reversed if it doesn't work out in a desirable way. The current government of TWP has been here for years and, as someone said earlier in this thread, the people behind it aren't going anywhere: the worst case scenario is that the experiment doesn't work out, the guardians take control again, and TWP returns to its current state.

 

There isn't really anything happening here right now, and if you've got nothing, you've also got nothing to lose.

 

Instead of complaining about the lack of activity, people should make an effort to ameliorate the current condition. When there is little or no activity there is no other way of keeping things running (at whatever level that might be) if no one can be bothered to do anything about it. Just my two cents.

 

These people are clearly trying to ameliorate their current condition, and this discussion is an attempt to plan their efforts to improve the region. They aren't complaining. They've acknowledged a problem and are actively seeking solutions to it herein.

[Intelligent Holograms]

I am warming to this idea but I wonder how this would look on the world stage. TWP lowers all defences and virtually invites every government in NS to come and have a go at "saving" TWP from raiders; it would be an opportunity they would be foolish to miss.

 

Even then, anarchy could get quite tiresome after a while. One ruler comes along and the region accommodates them, changes the rules to their liking, then a new one comes and everything has to be changed again.

 

The off-site forum's activity here is pretty bad, and if you've got nothing, you've also got nothing to lose.

 

 

True. It's all or nothing now.

[Crazy Slots]

The anarchy would not be permanent. It would only last until a new generation truly interested in replacing it with order stood up and started putting in the work necessary to do so, and it would be easy for them to make waves in this proposed setting. The anarchic environment would naturally create a demand for dedication and activity that currently isn't present here, and the guardians' ability to contain the "anarchy" until that happens means that you wouldn't have to worry too much going wrong. Once it happened, you would move forward with the new establishment, and activity, interest, and dedication would be inherent to such a thing.

 

The idea is to recreate the kind of atmosphere that happens when a feeder is first born, but this environment would include safeguards* against oppressive regimes and tyranny rising up: a new government would have to appear eventually. A super-region can only last so long without a government before another one shows up. The new government would be naturally forged by new blood. The experiment would essentially allow a new government to arise here that the guardians and everyone else on this board would later join, but since you wouldn't be its creators, you would fit naturally into the category of "guardian." By that, I mean that guardians would protect the region from undesirable delegacy changes and would work as advisors in the new government unless they felt compelled to pursue deeper participation.

 

It's worth reiterating that if anything undesirable happens, it can still be reversed thanks to the lopsided amount of influence on your side.

 

NOTE: * The safeguards are the guardians and their influence.

[Phanari]

So lets just hand over the keys to someone and watch the world attempt to liberate TWP. I understand it's very TNP but look how they turned out.

[Westwind]

It's hard for me to comment on this thread.....it gives me too many thoughts to express at once

 

I have been asking Yy to give me the authority to establish a government for months, and he won't make such an announcement.  As Yy is focused ingame rather than offsite government, I suggested that he remain Delegate and Head of State, and appoint me Head of Government to get things going.  My plan has been to essentially institute a charter/government from which interested TWP members are free to change and legislate, and provide opportunities for anyone that is interested in leading the various aspects of managing a GCR.  Or, I'd be happy to re-instate TAO's framework Constitution, as it provides wide lattitude for fashioning the region in whatever manner the current leadership would like.  IMO, it's the best Constitution we've had.

 

I started drafting a new Charter a couple months ago.  But was sidetracked as I had to represent TWP at the GCR Nazi summit in TP and the Telegram System summit in Balder.....try to help PD and Tweedy with NSR... as well as manage Foreign Affairs and the Military.  I'm spread much too thin, and keep hoping for others to come along to help out. The military needs soldiers and commanders, Foreign Affairs has Ambassadors but could use more and I'd love to have a deputy to help me write updates and attend negotiations.  We could use people to run events.....a Youtube Film Festival ?  A Battle of the Bands ?  A Spring Fling Ballroom Dance ?  How about having the first Immigration Ministry in a GCR and start recruiting for ourselves ?

 

The Guardians purpose is to protect the Delegacy.  That's all.  We are also here to help and advise the region in it's self-governance.  But players have to participate and make something of the nearly blank slate that's been provided. Pointing fingers at the Guardians belies the inactivity of most ALL players in TWP regarding the offsite forum and government simulation.

 

Activity on the forum requires more than just me posting and others posting quick replies....it got tiring replying to every thread to keep it looking somewhat active.  And yet....that's what it takes sometimes.  Over the years, there have been many periods where a few people are doing the work of simply keeping it alive until others start participating.  Somewhere in this thread it was asked if a region so low in activity has recovered and the answer is 'yes'.  It happens all the time.  Activity waxes and wanes over time in all regions, GCR or UCR.

 

Sometimes it takes drastic action.....and those that know me, know I'm no stranger to finding ways to force activity.  *chuckles at Dark's mention of Neutral Territory*  I mean.....five years later, and there are still people around NS that either want the return of my Crimson Order, or still hate me for it.  (for reference:  The Crimson Order fought against Admin/Mod inactivity, and I was TNP Delegate during that time.  IMO, it was successful.)

 

There is great opportunity available in TWP, just waiting to be realized.

[Intelligent Holograms]

The idea of building something upon a framework appeals to me more than taking a constitution and changing it just because this could be the rebirth of a new, active TWP with a new way of doing things instead of merely adapting what has been already created. Building, to me, also seems to be a more interesting way of getting people involved.

 

As I've said before, I'd be happy to help in anyway you need me to. I'm currently also preparing a survey to send to all members of NSR, so expect that soon.

 

I'm not pointing fingers, I merely observed that when TWP's activity collapsed until only the Guardians were active, nothing was done to properly reignite activity. Until now.

 

I am glad that there is hope for TWP's activity yet and I await the glorious day when TWP rises from it's ashes to retake it's position on the global and home front.

 

Just curious, but how do you fight against MOD inactivity?

[Crazy Slots]

 There is great opportunity available in TWP, just waiting to be realized.

I concur. I decided to pop by here and talk a bit because it definitely seems like there is some potential for major change in TWP.

 

I for one think that drastic action would be fun in this case, but ultimately what happens is in the hands of the people here. If you guys want an extra hand in achieving whatever it is you chose to pursue, I am more than happy to provide a bit of assistance, for what it's worth.

[God-Emperor]

By assistance, he mean be your new delegate when Yy buys into his Warzone The West Pacific idea.  Kiddin', but I do like the name Warzone TWP.  Almost worth it just for the name.

[Westwind]

Building, to me, also seems to be a more interesting way of getting peopleinvolved.

 

 

*nods* That's true, it does get people involved and more likely to be active. It sometimes helps for the initial result to remain a framework, so the details become the early work for a new government....especially for a legislative branch.  Prevents a quick fall into inactivity while the government gets organized and working towards the region's goals. 

 

It's also worth considering that a regional government needs to meet the size of the pools of available active players at any given point in time.  A government with ten positions cannot succeed if only 5 people are active.  And vice-versa, a 5 person government becomes a burden when 20 others want to particiapte too. 

 

I for one think that drastic action would be fun in this case, but ultimately what happens is in the hands of the people here. If you guys want an extra hand in achieving whatever it is you chose to pursue, I am more than happy to provide a bit of assistance, for what it's worth.

 

We could have the Guardians take turns banjecting nations they each might want gone.  They'll lose a bunch of Influence, leveling the playing field for others. 

 

Or wait....we could divide the Guardians into teams and have them battle for control of the Delegacy.  Battle of the Guardians!  Nah, I can't go for that, I'm the puny weakling Guardian, still only a Minnow.  I'd be last picked to join a team, and first banjected.   (unless I could recruit a high Influence non-Guardian to my own subversive third team.....)

 

Anyway....yes, any assistance you'd like to contribute is welcome as far as I'm concerned.

[Tweedy]

Well I'm not a Guardian, but I have been trying to encourage activity in The Clubhouse.

[TAO]

*We could have the Guardians take turns banjecting nations they each might want gone.  They'll lose a bunch of Influence, leveling the playing field for others.*

 

This is an interesting idea ... purge TWP of as many WA nations as possible to create an opportunistic instability.  If TWP actually did this, it would be 'fair' only if the Guardians/Del burned thier Influence on booting WA nations and leaving the non-WA minnows alone.  Purges have been attempted in the Game but not a WA-specific surgery.

[Westwind]

Yeah, purges have usually been for the purpose of banjecting as many nations as possible.... just high numbers which generally means a bunch of new minnows.  Ivan's purge was as much to see how far his Influence would spend on banjections as it was about numbers (and making the delegacy safer for Moo-cows).  And JAL....just banjects for the hell of it to see who he can upset.  My banjections was a war of attrition with defenders invading TNP.

[Morpheus]

Been around every sort of government there is on this game. Must admit, I preferred a Monarchy. Structure was simple, government did well and when we had people doing the duty set before them, everything ran like clockwork. Then real life set in and everything went to the dogs. We haven't the foggiest on how to turn this thing off - it's a disease. 

 

I believe to really ramp up activity, a radial solution should take news around Nationstates to do so. Cause a rebellion, cause a dictatorship by overthrowing the delegacy. A debate which involved power and who went where always works.

 

When we had the old true home style of TWP within Nationstates in 2007, we had the Senate, Town Council, Ministries and the First Minister. It was the election within the Senate that put you in the spot for the contender list. It was a stage process for competency and one which I must admit worked - for a while.

 

This style to me was ludicrous change. I truly believed we found a perfect working system and we just had to bloody change it. Look where that ended up.

 

TWP is a dying bread of dogs waiting to go to heaven.

[Westwind]

Nah, TWP isn't dying, it's just the old timers keep waiting for others to come along and start a new age.

[Morpheus]

If that ain't dying I don't know what is. Death is a waiting game my dear fellow.

[Westwind]

*chuckles*  Lets let death take a holiday and declare the New Crimson Order of The West Pacific.  Fighter of Nazi's and Independent Empire of the New Age of NS.

[Tweedy]

If that ain't dying I don't know what is. Death is a waiting game my dear fellow.

Hi Kevin, I heard you talking about me!

[rolheath]

there is only now

and the possibility

[Crazy Slots]

Well, this should definitely be interesting.