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Showing content with the highest reputation on 01/20/19 in all areas

  1. Fujai

    New Theme Chatter

    Seeing as the whole process is up to the delegate's discretion, the only "too late" point is when the new theme is in place. Respecting the delegate's decisions and wanting more community input are not mutually exclusive. It's not "my methods are better," it's more "we think there hasn't been enough community input in this process and that may jeopardize the success of a theme change." Yes, but the extent of that say has been voting in the nice and neat poll that includes only the options presented to us by the cabinet. There hasn't been, and I hazard that there never was intended to be, community involvement in the actual drafting process. There's no reason the delegate couldn't have come to the community, or just the Hall, and said "We're going to have a theme change. How do you feel about that? What do you think of these preliminary options we've come up with so far, and do you have any suggestions of your own?" That would've spawned discussion similar to this one, but without people being miffed by an exclusionary process. As WW pointed out, there are poll options gameside to make it fairly secure. Opening the vote to all residents over 1B will certainly get a better response than the couple dozen in the Hall. Better yet, if we actually put effort into promoting and advertising the Hall, perhaps we wouldn't have that problem.
    4 points
  2. Westwind

    New Theme Chatter

    *raises eyebrow* Where? Again, I'm not on Discord, so I don't know where this lengthy discussion occurred, because it certainly wasn't here or ingame. You seem to have a different POV than those outside your circle. I think it would be wise to consider this. Correct and agreed. It isn't an organic change, let's not pretend that it is. As I mentioned before, if you set the poll on Native, you can only vote if you have more Influence in TWP than any other region. And if you set it on Large Nations, nations under 1 billion can't vote. IMO you can get a fairly secure ingame vote. But it seem everyone in NS doesn't realize this. But then, it's a pet peeve of mine of that many ignore ingame features in favor of offisite control. Also agreed. What's the rush? Let me follow up on my comments about having made theme changes in my time. I took the Delegacy of a TWP that had a brand new inactive forum, no formal government, no constitution/charter/whatever. I was starting from scratch. That's not the case now. I am afraid my feeling is that this change is being ramrodded down the region's throat, with a couple days of comment substituting for discussion, debate, and input, where any alternative thoughts are dismissed when they were never considered in the first place. Saint Mark seems overly defensive and apologetic, which doesn't inspire confidence in this plan of action. Or in other words, this all seems poorly handled and poorly presented. As I said, fourth impression: My opinion doesn't matter. Sadly, regardless of the Delegate posting promises, I have little confidence in this change under these circumstances. Most of us are not in the Cabinet, and nowhere do I see evidence of this. You are defending yourself instead of promoting your position.....it feels strange and makes me wonder why you are so defensive. How often does the Delegate/Cabinet/Guardians bring such issues before the region? Isn't it true that controversy drives conflict which drives activity? Isn't it shutting down this same activity by rushing to a conclusion? *nods* A Delegate, Guardian, Minister should be servants of the region.
    4 points
  3. Done! But please don't call me Dark.
    3 points
  4. Mediobogdum

    New Theme Chatter

    I agree that interest in the theme change has been more than for all other subjects that have come up for debate in recent times, which is great news. The numbers still do not, in my opinion, come anywhere near to a mandate from the player community at large. By denying them a say, even if it is an advisory one, seems to me to be overly restrictive and may result in feelings of having been ridden roughshod and ignored. It is understood that much work has been done by yourself and the proponents of the shortlisted themes, and that by going to the populace may seem be be against your personal wishes/judgement. However, I fail to see what the cogent argument(s) for not doing so is/are. Of course, the final path ahead is your's to chart, but if I were a player and knew that a theme change was in the offing I would love, nay expect, to be at least asked my views. After all, without the players, what is the region's raison d'etre?
    3 points
  5. Wasn't an insult. Just in reference to the people who create a nation, explore it for a couple days, then disappear forever. Clearly people who've been around for over a decade are not in the "will CTE a few weeks from now" Category. Didn't mean to make you feel insulted, West, I love your rocking chair, wise old posts. Weeeelll... not the Hebrews, no. But someone is definitely building those pyramids...
    2 points
  6. Fujai

    New Theme Chatter

    We need change, not replacement. While I love me a good ol' fashioned revolution, an honest discussion about present (and past) governments not being very responsive to the people is going to get the region further than suggesting a second government. This topic doesn't need any more discussion; it will only create needless divisiveness. Bottom line: this is about activity, or rather the lack of it. The new theme is an attempt to inspire some new activity, and it's certainly a good idea, the execution is not as inclusive as it could be. Since the theme itself is trying to create activity, it makes sense to involve the community to actively shape it. While well-intentioned and functional on paper, the Manners, the Hall, and the Delegacy have not acquitted themselves well in fostering activity. in the past few months there've been a couple threads about change, and that's a good start, but there has to be more discussion how to change the way we do things so we can get out of this cycle of regional stagnation.
    2 points
  7. I think that this is a real positive idea that will help the chosen theme gain legitimacy in the region. I agree that it feels like we are rushing into this when legit discussion is/was still taking place. I am increasingly unsettled that the only people allowed to vote on the regional theme are Hall of Nations members. It doesn't seem representative of the region.
    2 points
  8. Fujai

    New Theme Chatter

    That's definitely a step in the right direction, though I have two questions about it. First, why not just do this in the first place and skip the part where we vote on three options? Kawaii, OT, and Ark could certainly head their own teams and if one of their themes was chosen then more power to them. That seems like a really good compromise between more community involvement and keeping it centralized to me, and could have avoided a lot of this drama. Second, if you had the beginning of this plan before voting started, why wasn't there more transparency? Again a lot of this drama could've been at least soothed by more fluid communication (not that I claim to be good at communication myself). Can you tell us what they are and how to get involved, should we desire? I've noticed it a lot in past and present Delegacies that changes and new programs are very much a "guardians and ministers only" club. Right now those two groups overlap a lot, which doesn't help the situation. We always complain to ourselves that the regional government isn't very active, and yet we have regional governments that aren't inclusive in the activity that's happening. People keep saying something we as a region need to think more about: if there's no ownership, then what incentive does the community have to interact with it? The answer is, of course: none. We can try to make incentives like the peerage and point systems, but if the community doesn't feel like something is genuinely theirs—like the're not intrinsically a part of something—then there's no reason to be involved. That's one reason some of us don't like the three themes presented. They don't feel like TWP—they don't feel like something the community can rally behind and say "this is who we are." There's a discussion to be had on whether a theme should do that. I argue that if a theme doesn't inspire long-term feelings of regional spirit and belonging, then what good is it? A real theme should be a tool to enhance regional identity, not just as a change of clothes to throw off every so often.
    1 point
  9. Saint Mark

    New Theme Chatter

    You are right, Fujai. This is all about activity. After having listened to the discussion, and before voting had started, I had started to plan out how we would implement the theme change. I wanted the implementation itself to generate activity and I wanted it to be as inclusive as possible, so I had decided to hold a contest open to all of the residents of TWP. Teams would be tasked with developing ideas on how to implement whatever theme is chosen. They would be given certain guidelines, one of which would be to be respectful of TWP's character. This isn't the only program that we are going to put forth to try to generate activity. We have a lot that we're working on. I can't believe the fuss over some fun window dressing. Does Osiris enslave Hebrews? Is Balder raiding monasteries? Is The Pacific feeding Christians to the lions? All of these regions, and many more (and us many times in the past) have themes and are still the kinds of regions they are because of the people there.
    1 point
  10. Ark

    New Theme Chatter

    So when the delegate doesn’t govern the way you want, you just decide to change the government? I can’t believe a simple theme change is enough for a forum admin to threaten to create a new forum government.
    1 point
  11. Saint Mark

    New Theme Chatter

    You were the one who set up the current government structure based upon what already existed in TWP, Badger.
    1 point
  12. This is exactly my point. If you want the theme to be successful there must be community buy in. The best way to achieve that is by giving the community ownership of the process. Instead we are told "trust us". And those of us who have wanted to discuss the process have been put down, discredited, and mocked for being afraid of change. This is exactly right as pointed out by Kawaii on discord: This is the exact approach to create community! Instead of creating the opposite...an us vs them environment. When there's absolutely nothing occurring in the Hall except elections, sure this discussion could have occurred in a healthy and meaningful way. Honestly this entire process has left a really bad taste in my mouth for the way our region is governed. Perhaps it is time to discuss a second forum government to give the residents a voice. As WW has pointed out, it has happened in the past.
    1 point
  13. Saint Mark

    New Theme Chatter

    No. The vote will be in The Hall.
    1 point
  14. Saint Mark

    New Theme Chatter

    West, it was your choice not to participate in the government by not becoming a citizen. You still have been not only allowed to express your opinion, but listened to with respect.
    1 point
  15. I want to echo each and all WW comments
    1 point
  16. Reçueçn

    Hey TWP, Danlina here

    I am! And welcome back to you too, sorry to hear about your mother-in-law. The whole region was thinking of you
    1 point
  17. Mediobogdum

    New Theme Chatter

    I can see absolutely no reason why we cannot present these options, plus others, to the TWP players as a Regional Poll. It would give a much wider set of opinions and might even come up with some new options. In addition, it would make the players feel much more involved and that they 'own' what is happening. It is understood that there might be some attempts at rigging the vote by outside influences, but this issue can be easily sidestepped by clearly stating that we are only allowing nations who have been in the region prior to 1 Feb 2019, or maybe 1 Jan 2019, to vote and to make the poll as an advisory, but meaningful, one to the Delegate. Sorting out the false 'claims' from the probable few hundred voters might be time consuming but still worth the effort. Just out of interest, is it possible to delete a vote from the list by the poll originator so this might be another way of cleaning the pollsters out who are not eligible? Suggest Options: Russia, China, Japan, Pirate, No Change, Other- state on rmb with case argued. Options randomly placed in the selection list, of course!
    1 point
  18. 1 point
  19. Beyond disappointing to see The Pacific has continued to work with a criminal player such as Block. It's not the first time they've worked with him nefariously, and it's not the first time we've had to call them out about the association. Obviously they didn't learn and don't care. The Pacific needs to return to sound leadership, and governance based on respect, trust, and merited responsibility. The current leadership needs to step down having stained the proud history of the region once again.
    1 point
  20. Altino

    New Theme Chatter

    Lol. I feel like an onsite vote is a little on "too little too late" territory at this point. Kind of having a hard time processing the disparity between "I respect the delegate's decisions" and "but the delegate should do things by my methods." What the delegate has chosen to do is give TWP a theme. He's also chosen to give citizens of the region a say in the direction of that theme. Very kind of him. And wise, to make sure that those involved in making long term decisions for TWP are people who understand the place and will not CTE a few weeks from now, unaffected by what their randomly chosen vote brings us. Or vote stackers. Or trolly people from different regions taking that opportunity to decide TWP's fate without TWP's consent. Wouldn't that just be a disaster.
    0 points
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