Llamas Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 The Executive Council Act and General Elections Establishment Act both had some major flaws. Their rejection has made this obvious; it is notable that some points, such as the Alternative Vote, were clearly unpopular. However, it is still very necessary to establish laws which will take their place. It is clear that our current ad-hoc system of appointing ministers to do whatever and not holding them accountable in any way has not worked. Almost everybody holding a cabinet position has been highly inactive recently, from the Foreign Minister to the Ministers of Make-Believe, and this must be fixed. As such, I'd like to hear all of your proposals for what should be changed with the two bills. First, however, I'd like to offer one of my own. The Alternative Vote has been clearly unpopular. Despite the fact that I consider it relatively simple (I mean, compare to the Schulze method, for example), I understand that some others might not feel that way. However, First Past the Post voting is truly, truly terrible for so many different reasons. As such, I propose an easy-to-understand, yet quite effective, compromise: Approval voting. In it, instead of being forced to select one candidate, a voter is asked to cast a vote for each candidate he supports. Then, the votes are counted up to give an overall result. For reasons on why this is more fair than First Past the Post voting, see here. The point is, however, that it is incredibly simple; in fact, it can be argued that it's even simpler than the system currently in place. It's been used for hundreds of elections in the past, and it's relatively easy to understand. So, what other ideas do you have? What do you think about approval voting? I'm interested to hear what everybody thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You have a perverse fascination with weird election systems. Little Sealand, Llamas and Darkesia 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestarzt Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I feel like I've had this discussion, perhaps in another life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llamas Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 I feel like I've had this discussion, perhaps in another life. *slips proposal for the alternative vote I made in Lazarus under the rug* You have a perverse fascination with weird election systems. This whole game is about politics, it makes sense it would attract people who care about these kinds of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 We need both a streamlined Ministery proposal, and a SINGLE STRAIGHFORWARD voting system, basically. I'll be taking a shot at drafting something out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llamas Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 We need both a streamlined Ministery proposal, and a SINGLE STRAIGHFORWARD voting system, basically. I'll be taking a shot at drafting something out. Approval vote is designed to be straightforward, which is why I offered it as a compromise. While different from what is normally done, it's still easy to understand; "Vote for all the candidates you like. Candidate with the most votes wins." In general, Approval results in much better results than Plurality, yet it's easy to understand, unlike Alternative. Anywho, here's my draft with a few edits for a new Executive Council Act. Only change I've made so far is allowing the Legislative RP ministry to stay intact. I'd like to do more, but right now I need to get to class. The Executive Council Act 1. The Executive Council will be comprised of the following officers elected by the Regional Assembly, who will be responsible for the following duties: a. The Officer of Foreign Affairs will, in consultation with the Head of Government, be responsible for coordinating diplomatic interaction with other regions. b. The Officer of World Assembly Affairs will be responsible for educating the nations of The West Pacific in regard to World Assembly matters, advising the delegate on how to vote, and advocating for proposals which he or she considers beneficial to the region's interests within the Security Council. c. The Officer of Community Affairs will be responsible for facilitating community affairs, including but not necessarily limited to integration, culture, and role play. d. The Officer of Home Affairs will be responsible for convincing recently-founded nations within TWP to remain within the region, encouraging nations to be more active on the Regional Message Board and offline forums, and educate the people of the region so that they may grow to be active and productive citizens. 2. Officers of the Executive Council may appoint deputies to assist in the execution of their prescribed duties. a. Deputies may be removed by the legislature through a vote of no confidence, which in order to succeed will require a simple majority of all votes. b. Deputies may also be removed by executive order of an Officer. 3. In the case that a seat on the Executive Council should become vacant, a by-election will be held in order to select an Acting Officer, who will fill the vacant position until the next general elections. 4. The Regional Assembly may remove any members of the Executive Council through a vote of no confidence. In order to succeed, over three-fifths of all votes cast must be in favor of removing the incumbent minister. 5. The Regional Assembly may change the names of the Executive Council or its officer positions by majority vote. 6. Any members of the Executive Council must be a part of the Regional Assembly. 7. The ministries of World Assembly Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Interior Affairs, and Make-Believe that were established prior to this Act are vacated and rendered null and void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 My first suggestion, and you may call it an official request, is that you start handling both discussions as separate discussions. I think mixing them up just contributes to complicate the argumentation and whatnot. Based on this, I'm gonna consider this is INFORMAL DISCUSSION about the creation of a cabinet, and I will myself open an INFORMAL DISCUSION for a General Elections act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 That's basically the same thing as last time Llamas. 1. I don't think resigned positions should be appointed. By-elections are preferable imo. 2. You've once again referenced a PM, a position not defined in any laws atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkdaddy Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I feel like I've had this discussion, perhaps in another life. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Sealand Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Can't we just have several candidates fight it out over a seat in the arena? Anyway, 3. In the case that a seat on the Executive Council should become vacant, the Prime Minister shall select an Acting Officer to serve in the position until the next elections.As with what archaism said, I'd much rather have a separate election for the vacant position instead of an appointment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I will be making a counter proposal this coming Monday, with some aspects if this and some others of my own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llamas Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 That's basically the same thing as last time Llamas. 1. I don't think resigned positions should be appointed. By-elections are preferable imo. 2. You've once again referenced a PM, a position not defined in any laws atm. I edited the proposal to take this into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantome Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 -Fail post, found the actual topic- Little Sealand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I am having connection issues this week, I'll try to post my version/changes as soon as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Sealand Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I am having connection issues this week, I'll try to post my version/changes as soon as possible I have connection issues, electricity issues, food issues, sanitary issues, water issues, pollution issues, and sleep issues at my grandmas house. Visiting a third world country is not fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We can spam all other threads, lets avoid excessive spam in here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Sealand Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Are all TWP laws shot down really hard? Elegarth and Llamas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Surely it's not spam if I bribe you with cookies Elegarth. Little Sealand, Llamas and Elegarth 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Sealand Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Surely it's not spam if I bribe you with cookies Elegarth. It's not spam if it's theft of food is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkdaddy Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Spamming threads is what we do here in TNP. ...On Topic, I hate alternative voting. I'm perfectly happy with a true pluralistic vote where someone can receive less than 50% of the vote and win and we not have to figure out who's the 2nd 3rd or 100th option. I also like real run-offs if we as a group don't want certain elected offices elected with less than 50% of the vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 There is currently a proposal for a separate and independent election process here: http://www.westpacific.org/forums/index.php?/topic/1242-general-election-guidelines-proposal/ I've requested that we separate the conversations,and focus this in the creation and discussion of a cabinet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Spamming threads is what we do here in TNP. ...On Topic, I hate alternative voting. I'm perfectly happy with a true pluralistic vote where someone can receive less than 50% of the vote and win and we not have to figure out who's the 2nd 3rd or 100th option. I also like real run-offs if we as a group don't want certain elected offices elected with less than 50% of the vote. Spamming threads is what we do here in TNP. here in TNP TNP Little Sealand, That Called the Vlagh and Llamas 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkdaddy Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 My bad.... ...lol..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestarzt Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Of all places, TNP? The horror! Llamas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 My proposal The Executive Council Act 1. The Executive Council will be comprised of the following officers elected by the Regional Assembly, who will be responsible for the following duties: a. The Officer of Foreign Affairs will, in consultation with the Head of Government, be responsible for coordinating diplomatic interaction with other regions. b. The Officer of World Assembly Affairs will be responsible for educating the nations of The West Pacific in regard to World Assembly matters, advising the delegate on how to vote, and advocating for proposals which he or she considers beneficial to the region's interests within the Security Council. c. The Officer of Community Affairs will be responsible for facilitating community affairs, including but not necessarily limited to integration, culture, and role play. d. The Officer of Home Affairs will be responsible for convincing recently-founded nations within TWP to remain within the region, encouraging nations to be more active on the Regional Message Board and offline forums, and educate the people of the region so that they may grow to be active and productive citizens. 2. The Officers of the Executive Council will respond to the Regional Assembly (RA) at large, and will be held responsible before the RA of their actions and omissions in the execution of their duties. The Speaker of the Regional Assembly shall serve as Head Officer of the Executive Council, assisting with the coordination and execution of their responsibilities. He will also have authority over the Executive Council Officers, and respond to the Regional Assembly at large for his actions. 3. Officers of the Executive Council may appoint deputies to assist in the execution of their prescribed duties. a. Deputies may be removed by the legislature through a vote of no confidence, which in order to succeed will require a simple majority of all votes. b. Deputies may also be removed by executive order of an Officer. 4. In the case that a seat on the Executive Council should become vacant, a by-election will be held within 3 weeks in order to select an Acting Officer, who will fill the vacant position until the next general elections. In the meantime, the Head Officer of the Executive Council will fill the duties of the vacant office, or will coordinate those duties fulfillment with the rest of the Council and existing deputies as needed for the continuous operation of the region. 5. The Regional Assembly may remove any members of the Executive Council through a vote of no confidence. In order to succeed, over three-fifths of all votes cast must be in favor of removing the incumbent minister. 6. The Regional Assembly may change the names of the Executive Council or its officer positions by majority vote. 7. All members of the Executive Council will be elected as per the procedures and requirements established General Election Guidelines Act. 8. The ministries of World Assembly Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Interior Affairs, and Make-Believe that were established prior to this Act are vacated and rendered null and void. 9. The duties of the Speaker of the Regional Assembly as Head Officer of the Executive Council will be considered additions to his role, and he will continue to be responsible for all other tasks and responsibilities established in The Role of the Speaker of the Regional Assembly Act. The Speaker of the Regional Assembly will also fulfill the responsibilities assigned to the figure of the "Prime Minister" in any other legislation previously approved. Here is the reasoning: 1) I know many of you consider the figure of the prime minister redundant and unnecessary, however, there must be some sort of coordination figure who can also pull the strings and help establish the guidelines. Since creating a new positions seems dumb, I'd search for advise and opinion from other members and hence the recharging of those actions upon the speaker of the RA. 2) The figure of the Prime Minister will disappear, then, and the Speaker will serve both as the head of the assembly and the head of the executive council. This steams down from the fact that both the Speaker and the Executiv Officers receive their authority from the Regional Assembly at large, who acts as the highest authority figure, and the speaker embodies such representation, hence taking the role of leader and guide to the assembly. 3) Existing safeguards would prevent any speaker from overdoing it and trying to limit the rights or mishandle the obligations of any other member of the region, so they shouldn't be any risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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