Fujai

That's definitely a step in the right direction, though I have two questions about it.
First, why not just do this in the first place and skip the part where we vote on three options? Kawaii, OT, and Ark could certainly head their own teams and if one of their themes was chosen then more power to them. That seems like a really good compromise between more community involvement and keeping it centralized to me, and could have avoided a lot of this drama.
Second, if you had the beginning of this plan before voting started, why wasn't there more transparency? Again a lot of this drama could've been at least soothed by more fluid communication (not that I claim to be good at communication myself).
Can you tell us what they are and how to get involved, should we desire?
I've noticed it a lot in past and present Delegacies that changes and new programs are very much a "guardians and ministers only" club. Right now those two groups overlap a lot, which doesn't help the situation. We always complain to ourselves that the regional government isn't very active, and yet we have regional governments that aren't inclusive in the activity that's happening.
People keep saying something we as a region need to think more about: if there's no ownership, then what incentive does the community have to interact with it?
The answer is, of course: none. We can try to make incentives like the peerage and point systems, but if the community doesn't feel like something is genuinely theirs—like the're not intrinsically a part of something—then there's no reason to be involved. That's one reason some of us don't like the three themes presented. They don't feel like TWP—they don't feel like something the community can rally behind and say "this is who we are."
There's a discussion to be had on whether a theme should do that. I argue that if a theme doesn't inspire long-term feelings of regional spirit and belonging, then what good is it? A real theme should be a tool to enhance regional identity, not just as a change of clothes to throw off every so often.

We need change, not replacement. While I love me a good ol' fashioned revolution, an honest discussion about present (and past) governments not being very responsive to the people is going to get the region further than suggesting a second government. This topic doesn't need any more discussion; it will only create needless divisiveness.
Bottom line: this is about activity, or rather the lack of it. The new theme is an attempt to inspire some new activity, and it's certainly a good idea, the execution is not as inclusive as it could be. Since the theme itself is trying to create activity, it makes sense to involve the community to actively shape it.
While well-intentioned and functional on paper, the Manners, the Hall, and the Delegacy have not acquitted themselves well in fostering activity. in the past few months there've been a couple threads about change, and that's a good start, but there has to be more discussion how to change the way we do things so we can get out of this cycle of regional stagnation.
 

We need change, not replacement. While I love me a good ol' fashioned revolution, an honest discussion about present (and past) governments not being very responsive to the people is going to get the region further than suggesting a second government. This topic doesn't need any more discussion; it will only create needless divisiveness.
Bottom line: this is about activity, or rather the lack of it. The new theme is an attempt to inspire some new activity, and it's certainly a good idea, the execution is not as inclusive as it could be. Since the theme itself is trying to create activity, it makes sense to involve the community to actively shape it.
While well-intentioned and functional on paper, the Manners, the Hall, and the Delegacy have not acquitted themselves well in fostering activity. in the past few months there've been a couple threads about change, and that's a good start, but there has to be more discussion how to change the way we do things so we can get out of this cycle of regional stagnation.
 

Seeing as the whole process is up to the delegate's discretion, the only "too late" point is when the new theme is in place.
Respecting the delegate's decisions and wanting more community input are not mutually exclusive. It's not "my methods are better," it's more "we think there hasn't been enough community input in this process and that may jeopardize the success of a theme change."
Yes, but the extent of that say has been voting in the nice and neat poll that includes only the options presented to us by the cabinet. There hasn't been, and I hazard that there never was intended to be, community involvement in the actual drafting process.
There's no reason the delegate couldn't have come to the community, or just the Hall, and said "We're going to have a theme change. How do you feel about that? What do you think of these preliminary options we've come up with so far, and do you have any suggestions of your own?" That would've spawned discussion similar to this one, but without people being miffed by an exclusionary process.
As WW pointed out, there are poll options gameside to make it fairly secure. Opening the vote to all residents over 1B will certainly get a better response than the couple dozen in the Hall.
Better yet, if we actually put effort into promoting and advertising the Hall, perhaps we wouldn't have that problem.

Seeing as the whole process is up to the delegate's discretion, the only "too late" point is when the new theme is in place.
Respecting the delegate's decisions and wanting more community input are not mutually exclusive. It's not "my methods are better," it's more "we think there hasn't been enough community input in this process and that may jeopardize the success of a theme change."
Yes, but the extent of that say has been voting in the nice and neat poll that includes only the options presented to us by the cabinet. There hasn't been, and I hazard that there never was intended to be, community involvement in the actual drafting process.
There's no reason the delegate couldn't have come to the community, or just the Hall, and said "We're going to have a theme change. How do you feel about that? What do you think of these preliminary options we've come up with so far, and do you have any suggestions of your own?" That would've spawned discussion similar to this one, but without people being miffed by an exclusionary process.
As WW pointed out, there are poll options gameside to make it fairly secure. Opening the vote to all residents over 1B will certainly get a better response than the couple dozen in the Hall.
Better yet, if we actually put effort into promoting and advertising the Hall, perhaps we wouldn't have that problem.

Seeing as the whole process is up to the delegate's discretion, the only "too late" point is when the new theme is in place.
Respecting the delegate's decisions and wanting more community input are not mutually exclusive. It's not "my methods are better," it's more "we think there hasn't been enough community input in this process and that may jeopardize the success of a theme change."
Yes, but the extent of that say has been voting in the nice and neat poll that includes only the options presented to us by the cabinet. There hasn't been, and I hazard that there never was intended to be, community involvement in the actual drafting process.
There's no reason the delegate couldn't have come to the community, or just the Hall, and said "We're going to have a theme change. How do you feel about that? What do you think of these preliminary options we've come up with so far, and do you have any suggestions of your own?" That would've spawned discussion similar to this one, but without people being miffed by an exclusionary process.
As WW pointed out, there are poll options gameside to make it fairly secure. Opening the vote to all residents over 1B will certainly get a better response than the couple dozen in the Hall.
Better yet, if we actually put effort into promoting and advertising the Hall, perhaps we wouldn't have that problem.

Seeing as the whole process is up to the delegate's discretion, the only "too late" point is when the new theme is in place.
Respecting the delegate's decisions and wanting more community input are not mutually exclusive. It's not "my methods are better," it's more "we think there hasn't been enough community input in this process and that may jeopardize the success of a theme change."
Yes, but the extent of that say has been voting in the nice and neat poll that includes only the options presented to us by the cabinet. There hasn't been, and I hazard that there never was intended to be, community involvement in the actual drafting process.
There's no reason the delegate couldn't have come to the community, or just the Hall, and said "We're going to have a theme change. How do you feel about that? What do you think of these preliminary options we've come up with so far, and do you have any suggestions of your own?" That would've spawned discussion similar to this one, but without people being miffed by an exclusionary process.
As WW pointed out, there are poll options gameside to make it fairly secure. Opening the vote to all residents over 1B will certainly get a better response than the couple dozen in the Hall.
Better yet, if we actually put effort into promoting and advertising the Hall, perhaps we wouldn't have that problem.

*raises eyebrow*
Where?
Again, I'm not on Discord, so I don't know where this lengthy discussion occurred, because it certainly wasn't here or ingame.
You seem to have a different POV than those outside your circle. I think it would be wise to consider this.
Correct and agreed. It isn't an organic change, let's not pretend that it is.
As I mentioned before, if you set the poll on Native, you can only vote if you have more Influence in TWP than any other region. And if you set it on Large Nations, nations under 1 billion can't vote. IMO you can get a fairly secure ingame vote. But it seem everyone in NS doesn't realize this. 
But then, it's a pet peeve of mine of that many ignore ingame features in favor of offisite control.
 
Also agreed. What's the rush?
Let me follow up on my comments about having made theme changes in my time. I took the Delegacy of a TWP that had a brand new inactive forum, no formal government, no constitution/charter/whatever. I was starting from scratch.  That's not the case now. 
I am afraid my feeling is that this change is being ramrodded down the region's throat, with a couple days of comment substituting for discussion, debate, and input, where any alternative thoughts are dismissed when they were never considered in the first place.  Saint Mark seems overly defensive and apologetic, which doesn't inspire confidence in this plan of action.
Or in other words, this all seems poorly handled and poorly presented.
As I said, fourth impression:  My opinion doesn't matter. Sadly, regardless of the Delegate posting promises, I have little confidence in this change under these circumstances. 
Most of us are not in the Cabinet, and nowhere do I see evidence of this. You are defending yourself instead of promoting your position.....it feels strange and makes me wonder why you are so defensive.
How often does the Delegate/Cabinet/Guardians bring such issues before the region?
Isn't it true that controversy drives conflict which drives activity?
Isn't it shutting down this same activity by rushing to a conclusion?
*nods* A Delegate, Guardian, Minister should be servants of the region.
 
 

I agree that interest in the theme change has been more than for all other subjects that have come up for debate in recent times, which is great news.  The numbers still do not, in my opinion, come anywhere near to a mandate from the player community at large.  By denying them a say, even if it is an advisory one, seems to me to be overly restrictive and may result in feelings of having been ridden roughshod and ignored.
It is understood that much work has been done by yourself and the proponents of the shortlisted themes, and that by going to the populace may seem be be against your personal wishes/judgement.  However, I fail to see what the cogent argument(s) for not doing so is/are. Of course, the final path ahead is your's to chart, but if I were a player and knew that a theme change was in the offing I would love, nay expect, to be at least asked my views.  After all, without the players, what is the region's raison d'etre?
 

I can see absolutely no reason why we cannot present these options, plus others, to the TWP players as a Regional Poll.  It would give a much wider set of opinions and might even come up with some new options. In addition, it would make the players feel much more involved and that they 'own' what is happening. 
It is understood that there might be some attempts at rigging the vote by outside influences, but this issue can be easily sidestepped by clearly stating that we are only allowing nations who have been in the region prior to 1 Feb 2019, or maybe 1 Jan 2019, to vote and to make the poll as an advisory, but meaningful, one to the Delegate.  Sorting out the false 'claims' from the probable few hundred voters might be time consuming but still worth the effort.  Just out of interest, is it possible to delete a vote from the list by the poll originator so this might be another way of cleaning the pollsters out who are not eligible?
Suggest Options: Russia, China, Japan, Pirate, No Change, Other- state on rmb with case argued.  Options randomly placed in the selection list, of course!

From what I'm seeing, there's three main opinions: those in favor of one of the three presented themes, those in favor of a change, but not one of the themes presented, and those not in favor of a change. 
While it's Halo's perogative and I understand the reasoning, adding either a "Different Theme" and/or a "No Change" option would have soothed people's opinions and made them feel more included and valued. As we've seen here and other places, a community involved process doesn't mean all thousands of nations are involved, this thread alone has less than twenty different posters in it. Just because it may be a little more contentious and complicated doesn't make community involvement in decision making a bad idea.
Regardless of what happens, I have faith that Halo will make it work and we'll have a successful theme, even though the one that wins won't be everyone's first choice.

57 replies during a 5 day discussion between about 9 players is not "a discussion at lenght" nor a "most people"
 
You have the right to do this, lets just not pretend it is a public driven thing when it isn't. I am all for making clear what is clear. 
 
You are merely taking the opinion of a few in something you already decided to go with, but there isn't any real option. Let's not fool ourselves. 
 
I do wonder, if you are so sure "most people" supports this, why didnt you take it to an in game poll, make it official, and add the no change option
 
That would have been the fire test to your supposed massive support. 

I will always respect the Delegate's will, I'm just saying we should not pretend we are being fully open to the options. I'm ok with whatever result

From what I'm seeing, there's three main opinions: those in favor of one of the three presented themes, those in favor of a change, but not one of the themes presented, and those not in favor of a change. 
While it's Halo's perogative and I understand the reasoning, adding either a "Different Theme" and/or a "No Change" option would have soothed people's opinions and made them feel more included and valued. As we've seen here and other places, a community involved process doesn't mean all thousands of nations are involved, this thread alone has less than twenty different posters in it. Just because it may be a little more contentious and complicated doesn't make community involvement in decision making a bad idea.
Regardless of what happens, I have faith that Halo will make it work and we'll have a successful theme, even though the one that wins won't be everyone's first choice.

From what I'm seeing, there's three main opinions: those in favor of one of the three presented themes, those in favor of a change, but not one of the themes presented, and those not in favor of a change. 
While it's Halo's perogative and I understand the reasoning, adding either a "Different Theme" and/or a "No Change" option would have soothed people's opinions and made them feel more included and valued. As we've seen here and other places, a community involved process doesn't mean all thousands of nations are involved, this thread alone has less than twenty different posters in it. Just because it may be a little more contentious and complicated doesn't make community involvement in decision making a bad idea.
Regardless of what happens, I have faith that Halo will make it work and we'll have a successful theme, even though the one that wins won't be everyone's first choice.

I have a crazy idea.  *watches everyone roll their eyes*
Flags:
I love the dragon flag where the dragon is clinging to the back of the sun for the Regional WFE flag.  I have always been partial to dragons and love them in all their literary and film adaptations.  I also really like the stamp-like, trendy flag that was Kawaii's, I think.  I like it because it looks like a stamp.  If we added a relief of words (or a dragon?) in the top part of the sun, it could easily be used as an FA seal for treaties and dispatches.  I dislike the first group of flags because they remind me too much of the Kaiser and WWI sensibilities.   However, I have always wanted to rp-live in Imperial Russia.  Which brings me to ...
Titles:
I dislike all of them and their forms of address.  But not the idea of titles and some designations.  I think we (the region) can do better if we drink some wine and argue about it one evening.   I would like to ask that the Heir apparent designation be removed from the lists for a number of reasons we can argue about another time.
 
 
 

That would be a good thing, I'd think.
*chuckles* Bunch of rogues......The Syndicate (oh wait, a region already did that), The Western Cartel. The Rogue Gallery of The West Pacific....
I don't know if anyone knew this, but once upon a time I was looking to establish a Rogue Pirate military, sailing across all the Pacifics, unaffiliated with any of them. There were two or three missions these unknown Pirates engaged in across The Pacifics, but never really got fully off the ground.  I smiled when TWPAF went Pirate, I was proud of you all.
Exactly.  Of course, if The Delegate wishes to pursue a process/debate/choice beyond that.......that's The Delegate's choice too. On the other hand, if....
And no pink with purple polka dots WFE. I see a region that does that and I immediate click elsewhere. Have some respect for your viewer/readers and be easy on the eyes. 
Yup. You'll be sorry. You'll be frustrated. NS isn't worth the high blood pressure.
I tend agree with this. I'm still waiting for a presentation of sufficient cause for change, and where that change might apply, how it will be applied......
Although, had the Delegate simply announced "here is our new Theme!" I'd accept the Delegate wanting  a change as reason enough. (That doesn't mean I'd agree with or like the change)
 
I can't fully address this, I'm not on Discord so I don't know what the real activity level is here. Also, the period of the Holidays into February is always slow. The ebb and flow of NS. 
A theme change isn't sufficient to drive activity to combat staleness. Action is what drives change, and that action comes from the region's Leaders, not the theme.  
Partially why Pirates is worth considering.....the military is active, the military is Pirate.  I don't see that theme being promulgated on the RMB or via mass TG, so it feels detached from the region as a whole.  Integrating Pirate into the theme would meld the two together better in player's minds. (Psychology), tying the civilian and the military into a whole.  
Whenever the civilian government is closely tied to the military and military/diplomatic activities, it drives interest and activity. When a civilian government begins to ignore it's military, it will progressively go inactive. Unless is has another strong area (such as RP) to supplant the military activity.
 
There does seem to be less interaction with the region ingame these days. And obviously little interaction on the forum.  I don't do Discord, so I have no idea there. I feel like Non-Discord players have been locked out of activity by the regional Oligarchies.
Never ever EVER EVER allow a higher legislative body. NEVER. 
 
If it has no power, no one will participate - there will be nothing to do.  If it has too much power, I guarantee you will eventually have a conflict with the Delegate.  This is where the balancing act of TWP comes into play.
Let's not go to RL national themes at all. The Rising Sun of the TWP flag used to bother me all by itself as it was too suggestive of WWII Japan. I'm old, grew up with those veterans, knew WWI vets. My grandfathers were both considered National Security assets, my daughter's maternal great grandfather was a  private American citizen, captured as a POW by the Japanese and he died in malnourished captivity, his body never recovered.
(I knew a US Civil War vet - at his 100th birthday he said of his imprisonment as a POW that the prisoners "ate as well as the guards. All we had to eat was grasshoppers.")
Although no NS theme insulted me more than The NPO's Soviet theme. Made me sick to my stomach after growing up at nuclear ground zero for the Cold War. Let's not promote RL murderous regimes (such as Imperial Japan, Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany.....). 
I lived through that time, the 80's sucked.
Don't do 70's Japan, back then Japan was known for flimsy cheap throw away products. (Like China is known for now). *chuckles*
I like your flag design best of the choices, but I don't like it's color scheme.
I'd prefer to keep our flag, or alter it slightly, than a wholesale change.  I won't like it, whatever it is, if the theme design abandons our 15 year flag.
 

Let me state for the record that TWP will never  become anything even close to TEP. Let me also say that the idea that if TWP adopts a Japanese theme, that does not and should not ever be seen as a bad thing that will lead to an influx of memers, disrespectful types of any kind, or any kind of individual that we wouldn't normally banject on the reg. I think too many people have let the bad "weeaboo" kids ruin the image and idea of a Japanese theme, but it's important to remember that there's more to Japan than Anime and J-Pop, just as China isn't all about kung fu and Mauism. :^)

I had an idea to adopt a fun and promising environment that reflected Japan's Bubble Economy of the 80's, complete with the aesthetics as you can see by my flag. (And I'm aware that's not exactly "imperial Japan but it's what I was feeling so I went with it lol.) To give some background on the general culture of the Bubble Era, it was a time in Japan when its economy was at its peak and commercial success was high for many people. There are a certain feel and mood that's strongly present in many media depicting 80's Japan, that paints a picture of the good old days. It wasn't too far off from what the 80's was like here in the US.

I wanted to try and take the key aspects that made Bubble Era special and incorporate them into a theme, allowing us to leave a good first impression with those who come to our region. I wouldn't have sold them short either. I would do anything to give them something reminiscent of the high spirits and energy that was everpresent in 80's Japan. This coupled with a nice retro look would pull in many people. Especially as it relates to Japan. A lot more people now than ever are falling in love with Late 20th Century Japanese culture, it's been growing in popularity for over the last decade, and doesn't show any sign of stopping; nostalgia is very easy to market.

Now with all that being said, TWP wouldn't be "80's Japan," it would be TWP but with the characteristics and overall environment present in 80's Japan. I agree with keeping our coastal beach idea, but adding in a more fun, active, and promising vibe to it along with retro imagery.

Anyway, that's my two-cents as it relates to my theme. I know the other two are quite different. But now I've spilled my beans and explained my thought process with my theme a bit, hopefully, it may be to more people's liking.

Just a note:  What ever you decide, Halo.   ~for the love of all that is holy, I'm begging you; do not go with anime or kpop or any of that weeb stuff.  I can happily adjust to almost anything but that.  I can't bear the discord channels that have been consumed by it.~ 
But in reality, you are the Delegate.  It's your choice.  This sort of seeps into the other area of your changes.  (The desire to add a Senate level to the off-site government structure)
If you are waiting for complete consensus on something, it will never happen.  So, if you think the peanut gallery is being difficult now, just wait until you try to tie legislation to arguments from two separate bodies full of strong, intelligent opinionated players.  I am not passing judgement of right or wrong.  I'm just reminding us all of the difference between expectations and reality.
 

The reason is that things are getting stale in the region. Your changes were terrific, but that was about two years ago.
TWP is, in my opinion, the best region in NS, but we are not retaining the new players and we are having problems with TWPAF recruiting as well.
A new theme ... among other things ... is our attempt to spur interest and reverse the course before it slides too far.

I am not afraid of change.  I want the change to be compelled by a good reason. I don't feel like a good reason has been presented.  A theme change alone will not spur lasting activity.  There has been no discussion of how the individual themes will be utilized to do things.  We've had a Guardian say that they won't use the titles.  So what will be used? 
One theme is a flag only.  And while it is better than anything I can make, it doesn't really feel like the flag of a feeder.  It has a frenetic look with an 80's feel.  Not sure that it all goes together.  The russian and chinese themes have different iconology that don't really feel like the region.  
I'm nervous that if we adapt the Chinese or Japanese themes that we will take over the mantle of the Weeb Pacific.  The mess that created in TEP was a massive cleanup.
I truly like the idea of a non-RL country theme.  I can understand if some people don't like or are tired of the pirate thing.  But to adapt a RL culture is going to have a change on TWP.  It would be abhorrent to make it something that wasn't TWP. 
Y'all ministers and guardians did a ton of work.  Perhaps allowing the citizenry to work on ideas and make presentations would be good idea?  Or at least to flesh out some ideas.  Something as important as a theme change shouldn't be taken lightly.
 
 

For pirates, I was thinking more of a Pirates of the Caribbean style, nevermind that it's wildly historically inaccurate. The delegate could have the position of Pirate King/Queen/what have you, the guardians being their immediate officers, and the ministers being captains of their respective ministries. I agree that we don't want to go for a militaristic feel, but a more whimsical one. That being said, I do feel like the theme options are a bit too regimented, though well put together, in their current states.

For pirates, I was thinking more of a Pirates of the Caribbean style, nevermind that it's wildly historically inaccurate. The delegate could have the position of Pirate King/Queen/what have you, the guardians being their immediate officers, and the ministers being captains of their respective ministries. I agree that we don't want to go for a militaristic feel, but a more whimsical one. That being said, I do feel like the theme options are a bit too regimented, though well put together, in their current states.

For pirates, I was thinking more of a Pirates of the Caribbean style, nevermind that it's wildly historically inaccurate. The delegate could have the position of Pirate King/Queen/what have you, the guardians being their immediate officers, and the ministers being captains of their respective ministries. I agree that we don't want to go for a militaristic feel, but a more whimsical one. That being said, I do feel like the theme options are a bit too regimented, though well put together, in their current states.

Well, finally I have gone through the plethora of offerings from both threads.
My first thought is that as a region we need to do something to get new players actually involved rather than hovering around the edges before fluttering off to do their own thing. 
I have to say, however, that I am not a keen fan of any of the themes presented and agree with Fujai that a great option would be to extend the Pirate theme which does not clash with TWP's past history of being a non-RL themed region.  I have an abhorrence of lengthy titles for those in Ministries or positions of authority which smack of NGO titles, and believe we should keep titles short and sweet. 
Second, and I have a personal leaning towards Badger's thoughts of that... less is more... for the changes but would be perfectly happy for changes that the younger, and therefore the future senior players of TWP, would like to see.
P.S.  Suggest we combine this thread with A New Theme for The West Pacific