Elegarth

My problem with that is that, by having the discussion here, and voting in the site, we basically made all voting null. People who can vote simply votes without coming to the discussion unless the discussion is moved over to the RMB which is undesirable... Plus, the obvious puppet bleeding: anyone who want to influence a vote in-game simply needs to create any number of puppets and either keep them dormant until the vote, or keep them eternally semi-active to vote anytime several times :/

Same here

I'm gonna comment on the parts I have comments for only. What will be the difference between "rules of order" and laws per se? And what is the idea to avoid a proper legislature? I'm not against this, I'm curious as to the mail goal of this specific change. Simplification comes to my mind, somehow... That also means that embassies and in-game and forum embassies are separated and independent. Some issues here, in my view: 1) I would advocated for the Advocate to have a minimum time of active membership in the Voice, as it would give us candidates best prepared and knowledgeable about the forum community. 2) Too short a term. With elections lasting a minimum of 10 days and options for run-off, 2 months is WAY to short. I'd like it to be at least 3 months, and I found 4 months ideal, since it allows for people to run programs and projects and plans. I'm also personally against limiting someone's legal rights in any manner different than judicial, hence I'm opposed to the re-election limit. 3), 4) and 5) No issues 6) Whatever officials he likes? Shouldn't the structure of the officials be limited somehow? I see how not limiting them would allow for more flexibility. 7) I'd say that would require both a quorum and a supermajority... Else, it would be too destabilizing... Doesn't that seems awfully complicated? I'd rather have a small body, say 3 members of the voice, who can also be either elected or selected some other way tht judges this in the manner of a tribunal? Then appeals could be heard by the voice as a whole. But I feel this option implies too many votings, and too many runarounds to hear a complaint. We would also require some code of possible repercussions to people find guilty?

I like the timetable

Yeah no, still sounds like a terrible idea, personally. If we are the forum government, then the forum MUST be the tool to make our work and voting and etc.

Well, yes, is more of the fact that he has usually trusted my judgement, in general, PD, lol. But yes, it still surprised me.

I still think the region needs some sort of consultative body that is both allowed and charged with interpreting our codes and laws when there is differences between members...

I must be honest and say I'm surprised about Uni's reaction and heavily negative view of it all.

Thank you! That is the kind of attitude we need to build something worth building

I have no issues with your participation.

I'd liked to just let this die, but the constant accusations without fundament are becoming frustrating. So I'm heavily inclined to close it, if another HGA member agrees (Besides the ones who have already)

Thanks, Eli!

Signing in, naturallty

That seems a good idea, we could just open new sign ups for that Edit BUt it may also open a window to foreigners intervention or jumping in... I'd probably limit it to people who signed up till yesterday.

Actually HGA membership requires an active nation on TWP, forum membership does not

Vlaghs position, if I understand it correctly, is the only link between the Delegacy and the In-forum, and is intended to prevent stagnation of the Government in cases like this one. While I may still have the position of Prime Minister, we are technically now going through a constitutional convention that will BETTER outline the government. What happened in the last 20 days (which is when we started to try to get an executive government, just 7 days after having finished ANOTHER election) shows that we had gaping holes that could easily keep us stocked in this for another month, and Arch's idea of simply starting over in a BETTER way seemed reasonable to me. I hold no real power except for a minimum of avoiding chaos, I guess.

You are sort of going into personal matters there. I resigned to the NPO senate and out of a frienship I have with the NPO Emperor, Krulltopia, I have stepped out of the region as well. My first nation still resides in The Pacific, true, but if you check it, you will see it has little to no activity, and that I'm no longer participating in their government. I could, if I wanted, return. It is not my desire tho, not right now that I'm trying to build something in a different place.

Welcome to the region. Since we are going to start the process for a Constitutional Convention, and the HGA is technically dissolved, I'll close the thread now and will not accept more sign ings, as the institution will be rehashed and relaunched in the new Constitution in forms I can't foresee. Feel free to join the creation of a new constitution!

I hereby dissolve the HGA and call for a Constitutional Convention. It is my belief that our current set of laws and constitutive documents have too many holes and missing details that would need to be fix. And that the best and optimal way to solve it is through the creation of a new Constitutional document. Elegarth Prime Minister

That would be even more awesome!

I'm afraid there is no law in this world that extends people's time to vote cuz they had issues to vote, and I mean both REAL and VIRTUAL worlds :/

You remember this: http://www.westpacific.org/forums/index.php?/topic/1293-llamas-and-mexican-foods/?p=25503 You didn't opposed the plan of just making it two days, since this was already dragged way too much then, so I'm simply not accepting your opposition now, my friend, as it seems simple e-lawyering trying to drag a dead horse dead. The election was open for FIVE DAYS, not one more, not one less, we did shortened the campaigning one day.

Go for it!

I think that what Vlagh meant is that the "2. Assembly of all individuals in the in-game region" exists in the form of the RMB; currently, it is not given power. Now well, since the in-forum government holds no power or relationship with the in-game, why would they need to have any form of power that balances the "forum's" powers? They are not part of the forum government, and the in-game is not part of our jurisdiction...

Alright, so... The election results, as you can probably see them for yourself, are: ELEGARTH: 10 (Nox, Recuecn, Eli, Mediobogdum, Yy4u, Elegarth, That Called the Vlagh, Archsium, Westwind, Fortschrin) LLAMAS: 10 (A fish in the sea, cluntobone, simple country, Ike, Sad-States, LLamas, Kraketopia, Lemonpledge, punkdaddy, Fratellnoir) ABSTAIN: 3 (Hariko, John Sebastian, URAP) So we have another tie, which tbh borders the ridiculous... So here are the three options that I'm proposing as current Speaker/Prime Minister (legally elected on April 1st for a 3 months term): 1) We open the election for 24 more hours, and mass message members of the HGA (all of them). I would be doing this later today. It can easily end up in ANOTHER tie. And is MORE wasted time. 2) I am honestly tempted to rescind my resignation, since it has not been made effective, and simply end my term as Prime Minister, in the interests of stability and actual government action: the laws that created the Executive Council did not erode or deleted the previous election, and the act that turn the Speaker into the Prime Minister didn't either, so technically and legally speaking, I could just end my term (April 1st to June 30th) and have things started to roll: Ministers appointed, actual work happening, etc... 3) We could dissolved the HGA and go into a Constitutional Convention to formally and effectively implement Arch's idea of a new comprehensive new constitution... However, I'd like to hear people's opinions on the matter, since, as I've said several times, I'm not here to impose my views but to try to build COMMUNITY. We also have a Minister of Legislative RP whose opinion I'd like to hear. TWP, speak up!