Discussion on Treaties

[Cormac]

I have to admit I'm curious why the Assembly never had any input in regard to our existing treaties. I understand that the Delegate has absolute game-side power, but treaties are related to the forum government and our treaties have some provisions that are either shared with the forum government or virtually exclusive to the forum government.

 

Each of our treaties has military provisions. The military, while its actions are taken game-side, is organized via the forum.

 

Each of our treaties has intelligence provisions. While intelligence can be related to game-side activity, it is coordinated on the forum and many intelligence matters are forum related.

 

Each of our treaties has cultural components. Most culture between regions takes place on the forum.

 

I guess I'm trying to figure out by what authority the Delegate of The West Pacific signs a treaty that impacts the forum community without consulting the forum community. To be fair, I understand that Darkesia didn't sign any of these treaties but for a variety of practical reasons must now honor them, so it would be Westwind I'm looking to hear from on this. Why sign treaties and commit the forum government and community to alliances and obligations stemming from those alliances without consulting the forum government and community? And for what reason do you believe you even had the authority to do that?

[That Called the Vlagh]

I believe the authority stems from the gameplay mechanics that indicate the Delegate as leader of TWP.  The Guardians likely had some input on the treaties as their influence is also a factor.  To be fair, the Delegate doesn't ever need to consider our input on any issue.  If the forum community gets unruly, it can be displaced.

 

That said, the forum based government has shifted away from game-side interactions and is designated as the government of those deciding to take part on the forum, not as a representative body of the region as a whole.  Therefore extra-regional treaties would not influence us here directly.

 

Likewise, barring recent legislative endeavors, the military has maintained its structure separate from the HGA and while it utilizes these same forums for organization it is not (again, unless recent legislation has been approved by the Delegate making it so) beholden to the HGA directly.

 

The intelligence gathering aspect of TWP is wholly outside of the HGA I believe.

 

You may have a point in regards to the cultural components, but those generally involve mundane activities like joint celebrations, which are hardly impactful on our ability to maintain our own internal cultural identity and therefore not likely to require HGA approval.

[Darkesia]

Here is why the HGA stayed out of treaties :  They weren't interested.  It's pretty simple.

 

There is also a very complicated problem with treaties that seems to plague TWP.  If we are to be true to our governing style, there should be 2 treaties.  One for the Community and one for the Game side.  But no one seems to get that.  It means double work to peel apart a treaty so that it recognizes both aspects as equal.  There was a time when treaties were signed by both the Delegate and the Prime Minister as a means of recognizing both heads of government.  But when the Community moved toward hibernation, that fell out of favor because the inactivity held up diplomacy.

 

This remains the sole reason we are not treatied with TSP. They cannot agree on a treaty that does not recognize the forum community as superior to the Delegate.  It is a problem in the diplomatic arena.  However, it is a very important cultural difference in TWP so it's worth the struggle.

 

If the HGA wants to get involved in radifying treaties, it's more than welcomed to do so.  At this point the only crossover between Diplomacy (FA) and the game is with Embassies. The Delegate, as a courtesy to the Community, refuses to open an in-game embassy until and unless there is an embassy on the forum.

[Westwind]

The differences over treaty ratification between the Delegate and the government ended in conflict and losing good people before we embraced the duality and separation of the Delegate and the Community.  That was during the Delegacy of The Faeyas, where Eli was her regent/vice-delegate(I can't remember the exact title), and I was Minister of State Security.  The Upper House refused to ratify the treaty, even though the Delegate had the constitutional right to sign on behalf of the region.  Fae resigned and left the game as a result, and Eli became delegate refusing to recognize the government for it's treatment of Fae.

 

The government demanded Eli step down, even though the Constitution provided him to be Delegate until the next elections.  He thus announced a new government, with only a single assembly.  If anyone in the assembly wanted to do something, they were welcome to do it.  "Want to manage foreign affairs ?  Glad you're interested, go for it."  It was an open government, no citizenship requirements, no approvals of an upper house, no structured ministries.

 

We then had two governments at the same time on the forum.  Our community and forum allow for that.  But everyone in the community came together for a new constitution written by TAO that was simplistic, acknowledged the Delegate's game given rights, and allowed the forum government and community it's place and respect.  In the midst of this discussion, LWU came in and placed ROLHEATH in the Delegacy.  Yet, the new TAO government prevailed under the new Delegate, putting the problems of the past behind.  We've had no such troubles ever since.

 

TWP believes in game mechanics.  Simple as that.  No offsite forum can dictate to a Delegate.  It can argue with a Delegate.  It can seek to remove or replace a Delegate.  It can manage it's government affairs.  But it cannot dictate to the Delegate. NS and Max do not recognize offsite in regards to ingame.  So neither do we.  The game recognizes WA endorsements for the Delegacy and nothing else.  Thus we do as well.

 

More recently, we had no offiste government whatsoever at the time of Yy4u's Delegacy.  The only entity that he created was to appoint me to lead a military (his desire was to have a military to fight TBR).  What we have now, I created a framework for the community to build from during my Delegacy, by establishing this assembly, re-creating TWPAF, re-establishing our foriegn relations and treaties, establishing the WA Ministry role, establishing a Judiciary,  and enabling internal affairs and role play.

[Cormac]

And yet you've signed away The West Pacific's foreign policy to the UIAF. What did they give you for that, Westwind? Or did you do it for free?

 

TWP is a joke.

[Pestarzt]

And yet you've signed away The West Pacific's foreign policy to the UIAF. What did they give you for that, Westwind? Or did you do it for free?

 

TWP is a joke.

 

While treatied with the NPO?

[Consular]

^ Indeed. TWP's relations with the Pacific, who are certainly not friendly to the UIAF, predate its relations with the UIAF regions and have survived just fine after treaties with the UIAF regions were signed. I would also note TWP attended that conference thingy in Lazarus, without complaint from the UIAF regions despite their distaste for said conference. Recently, TWPAF has also been participating in defences and liberations, as is its right, without the UIAF complaining about that either, despite its obvious preference that the FRA and co not achieve anything worthwhile.

 

TWP is not bound by the UIAF or any other external force Cormac, despite what you so desperately need to be the truth to justify your own pathetic little crusade. The only joke here is you. So why don't you just fuck off, since you apparently have such a low opinion of us as a region? Nobody will miss you.