Westwind

We could have The Sacred Order of the West Pacific as a separate institution from the government for example. Has it's own theme, with a TWP historical basis. Grants titles, has an NS ideology... We don't need the Delegacy to manage our own affairs and policies, we would continue to recognize the sitting Delegate. Seven former TWP Delegates are members of The Sacred Order, including two current Guardians. The Delegate could join The Sacred Order and still maintain their own government and theme. You misunderstand. Badger is speaking for himself, not admin. The forum has recognized and provided forums for multiple governments before, more than once. The forum recognizes the TWP community, and the ingame authority of the Delegate. Governments are in reality a form of Role Play that is only tied to the game by the Delegate's recognition of it, as we recognize game mechanics as the true arbitor of ingame authority. The forum seeks to provide everything the Delegate needs and provides for the Delegate's government, but not exclusively. We serve the community. By allowing in-region opposition their own space, the community stays together and in time works to resolve differences as needed. This is the TWP way, and it has served us well for 12-13 years. I've seen large communities torn apart into separate forums and half the community never comes back and abandon's the game entirely in frustration. So many fantastic players lost to that. Thus, our forum serves the community, not just a government. Winnie has provided us all with a safe forum home for all (except those that get themselves banned for COPS treaty issues, et al), that isn't overly restrictive as those forums needing to conform to a third party TOS can be. We respect our players by seeking to preserve the whole community. There was an opposition group when I was Delegate. There was an opposition group during Yy's delegacy. There were the two governments after the Senate refused to work with Fae so she resigned the Delegacy and quit the game. She should have dissolved the government instead, but that government did not recognize game mechanic supremacy and tied her hands as she tried to work with them. Offsite government restraint of the Delegate results in inactive and rogue delegates, and split communities. Again, the forum resolves that by placing both the ingame appointed Delegate and the whole Community first before any particular government. If the Delegate's government works against the Delegate, and the Delegate ceases to recognize that government? The forum will continue to serve that government, while recognizing and providing for the Delegate's new government. That serves the entire community and avoids breaking it up, while recognizing the Delegate's prerogative. I think some misunderstand this, which brings them to be confused by those that say they respect the Delegate's choice, while expressing issues with or opposition to that same choice. As has been said, these are not incompatible positions. Precisely. The delegate asked for participation, yet those with ideas or concerns, have had their thoughts replied to with hollow assurances, rather than any attempt to hear or consider or address opinions/ideas/concerns expressed. That's my impression anyway. Yes, I sacrifice my ability to participate in order to remain an unbiased neutral admin.*sniffles overly dramatically, wipes a tear from his eye feeling the immensity of his sacrifice....falls out of his chair laughing* Although, I submitted my resignation as Admin in March 2018. But I can't remove my masking myself, and Winnie has left it as it, and I've given the admins my 2 cents on things that come up. *chuckles* I also didn't post an oath when our NationStates Republic government required it either. In that case I didn't agree with TWP turning it's governance over to an inter-regional body (sorry PD). Other regions could determine our policies. Of course, I was later the one to dissolve the NS Republic when I became Delegate. It was dead, the only active member was it's President...I don't remember his name or what region he was from....and he was barely active. But it did have some good activity during Enlightened Defenders Delegacy, and it was altered to ensure TWP's sovereignty. Remember to cut out the deadwood as you progress to allow new growth. Anyway, you didn't address anything I said or asked before, only commented on my citizenship which I'd already mentioned, so....

As the motto of Westwind Armed Forces says, "There is always a choice" There is no disparity. We support our Delegate, we don't worship the Delegate. Why should everyone mindlessly follow along without having their own opinion expressed and recognized? Welcome to the world of Politics and Community dynamics. This is not true. I am in the region, have been for many many years - 15 years, yet I have no say. I am disenfranchised by the government. What is this insult for? What did you hope to accomplish with it? The rest of what you said shows you didn't read what others wrote, and for some reason have chosen to be offended by those with another opinion.

*raises eyebrow* Where? Again, I'm not on Discord, so I don't know where this lengthy discussion occurred, because it certainly wasn't here or ingame. You seem to have a different POV than those outside your circle. I think it would be wise to consider this. Correct and agreed. It isn't an organic change, let's not pretend that it is. As I mentioned before, if you set the poll on Native, you can only vote if you have more Influence in TWP than any other region. And if you set it on Large Nations, nations under 1 billion can't vote. IMO you can get a fairly secure ingame vote. But it seem everyone in NS doesn't realize this. But then, it's a pet peeve of mine of that many ignore ingame features in favor of offisite control. Also agreed. What's the rush? Let me follow up on my comments about having made theme changes in my time. I took the Delegacy of a TWP that had a brand new inactive forum, no formal government, no constitution/charter/whatever. I was starting from scratch. That's not the case now. I am afraid my feeling is that this change is being ramrodded down the region's throat, with a couple days of comment substituting for discussion, debate, and input, where any alternative thoughts are dismissed when they were never considered in the first place. Saint Mark seems overly defensive and apologetic, which doesn't inspire confidence in this plan of action. Or in other words, this all seems poorly handled and poorly presented. As I said, fourth impression: My opinion doesn't matter. Sadly, regardless of the Delegate posting promises, I have little confidence in this change under these circumstances. Most of us are not in the Cabinet, and nowhere do I see evidence of this. You are defending yourself instead of promoting your position.....it feels strange and makes me wonder why you are so defensive. How often does the Delegate/Cabinet/Guardians bring such issues before the region? Isn't it true that controversy drives conflict which drives activity? Isn't it shutting down this same activity by rushing to a conclusion? *nods* A Delegate, Guardian, Minister should be servants of the region.

*chuckles*

Hey @ZetaOne and @Halmont, remember this? ZetaOne Posts 574 Advanced Member Halmont Posts 207 Advanced Member

PS: I don't know who was admin on the S8 TWP forums, but maybe someone could restore this old bit of TWP history..... http://z8.invisionfree.com/The_West_Pacific/index.php? "All zIF/ZB forums were migrated to Tapatalk. To restore your forum, please send your board URL to support@tapatalk.com to request for a late migration."

Nice to see you 'round

*chuckles* I've no doubt! In the US, some people did very well, and some did very poorly. The economy didn't soar as some would make it seem, instead it fell back several times. I remember the storefronts suddenly going empty across the cities a couple times. The music sucked. Government spending to defeat the Soviets provided jobs, but took it's toll by taking resources from other parts of the economy. The Decade of Greed wasn't universal, it was only a section that flaunted it with their suits and cocaine which Hollywood loves to portray, the corruption of the Keating Five, Iran/Contra, 1987 Black Friday market crash, Savings and Loan crisis..... A friend of mine and I were driving around downtown Kansas City in the '80's and we noticed these businessmen marching around the sidewalks in their grey suits as if they owned the world. We'd try to talk to them or at least get their attention. They wouldn't even respond to saying a simple 'Hi!" The thing that finally got their attention? We called out "Dollar Bills!" and they all turned their heads in unison to look our way. It was hilarious. Silly human race. These businessmen walking shoulder to shoulder, three people wide.....we decided that The Who nailed it. "Eminence Front. It's a put on." (the rhythm/beat of the song perfectly matched the businessmens purposeful steps) *winks*

The Ambassador sign-up thread is here:

We waste bits and bytes instead of breath. Welcome to TWP!

That would be a good thing, I'd think. *chuckles* Bunch of rogues......The Syndicate (oh wait, a region already did that), The Western Cartel. The Rogue Gallery of The West Pacific.... I don't know if anyone knew this, but once upon a time I was looking to establish a Rogue Pirate military, sailing across all the Pacifics, unaffiliated with any of them. There were two or three missions these unknown Pirates engaged in across The Pacifics, but never really got fully off the ground. I smiled when TWPAF went Pirate, I was proud of you all. Exactly. Of course, if The Delegate wishes to pursue a process/debate/choice beyond that.......that's The Delegate's choice too. On the other hand, if.... And no pink with purple polka dots WFE. I see a region that does that and I immediate click elsewhere. Have some respect for your viewer/readers and be easy on the eyes. Yup. You'll be sorry. You'll be frustrated. NS isn't worth the high blood pressure. I tend agree with this. I'm still waiting for a presentation of sufficient cause for change, and where that change might apply, how it will be applied...... Although, had the Delegate simply announced "here is our new Theme!" I'd accept the Delegate wanting a change as reason enough. (That doesn't mean I'd agree with or like the change) I can't fully address this, I'm not on Discord so I don't know what the real activity level is here. Also, the period of the Holidays into February is always slow. The ebb and flow of NS. A theme change isn't sufficient to drive activity to combat staleness. Action is what drives change, and that action comes from the region's Leaders, not the theme. Partially why Pirates is worth considering.....the military is active, the military is Pirate. I don't see that theme being promulgated on the RMB or via mass TG, so it feels detached from the region as a whole. Integrating Pirate into the theme would meld the two together better in player's minds. (Psychology), tying the civilian and the military into a whole. Whenever the civilian government is closely tied to the military and military/diplomatic activities, it drives interest and activity. When a civilian government begins to ignore it's military, it will progressively go inactive. Unless is has another strong area (such as RP) to supplant the military activity. There does seem to be less interaction with the region ingame these days. And obviously little interaction on the forum. I don't do Discord, so I have no idea there. I feel like Non-Discord players have been locked out of activity by the regional Oligarchies. Never ever EVER EVER allow a higher legislative body. NEVER. If it has no power, no one will participate - there will be nothing to do. If it has too much power, I guarantee you will eventually have a conflict with the Delegate. This is where the balancing act of TWP comes into play. Let's not go to RL national themes at all. The Rising Sun of the TWP flag used to bother me all by itself as it was too suggestive of WWII Japan. I'm old, grew up with those veterans, knew WWI vets. My grandfathers were both considered National Security assets, my daughter's maternal great grandfather was a private American citizen, captured as a POW by the Japanese and he died in malnourished captivity, his body never recovered. (I knew a US Civil War vet - at his 100th birthday he said of his imprisonment as a POW that the prisoners "ate as well as the guards. All we had to eat was grasshoppers.") Although no NS theme insulted me more than The NPO's Soviet theme. Made me sick to my stomach after growing up at nuclear ground zero for the Cold War. Let's not promote RL murderous regimes (such as Imperial Japan, Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany.....). I lived through that time, the 80's sucked. Don't do 70's Japan, back then Japan was known for flimsy cheap throw away products. (Like China is known for now). *chuckles* I like your flag design best of the choices, but I don't like it's color scheme. I'd prefer to keep our flag, or alter it slightly, than a wholesale change. I won't like it, whatever it is, if the theme design abandons our 15 year flag.

A Model United Nations sounds like fun. Once upon a time long ago when I was in High School, there was a Student Congress that competed at Forensics meets across the state. I was the Lead of my school's House Delegation, and served as Presiding Officer most meets. It was a blast. Unfortunately, most meets were required to go by Sequential Debate rather than Open Debate - I performed better with Open Debate. I remember writing Legislation on Decriminalization of Victimless Crimes and Judicial System Reform among others. In NS, I would suggest participation in regional Legislatures/Assemblies, debates in the General Assembly/Security Council World Assembly forums ingame, and signing up as an Ambassador. Good luck to you, and welcome!

*nods, rocks, rambles* During The Crimson Order operations, one of the possible paths we prepared was the restoration of ADN. I owned the domain name (PH gave it to me), created a new forum. We controlled two of the three largest regional former ADN militaries (TNP/Equilism) and I had an insider in Nasicournia (ADN foudning region) ready to declare alliance with us if I triggered that option. TWP had both defender and raider armies, and the TWP Minister of the defender army was a former Equilism Military Minister, so I expect TWP would have participated in some way. Those four regions were the four pillars of ADN. I could have been the Defender hero rather than villian. (Of course, all that had to be kept secret from the others we were working with such as Gatesville, The Last Kingdom, LKE....) I had three or four very different options mapped out and prepared. If TNP Admin Grosse /Flem hadn't refused to change the North Pacific Army forum name ("OMG West is going to turn us raider because he's changing the name!" *rollseyes*)- thus blocking me and violating the TNP constitution, Crimson Order would have turned out entirely differently. And Grosse and Flem would have been happy about the results. Instead they assumed my intentions incorrectly. Screwed themselves over based on their own metal projections. (Yes, yes....I encouraged those perceptions of course) TNP should stop calling me a rogue delegate. I was duly elected and It was TNP forum admin that violated the constitution, giving me no choice but to abandon the forum. I was duly elected and the constitution gave me full authority. Ah well. These days, TNP Admin Elu, who stole the TNP Delegacy from me, was recently asking for my help with TNP's forum move from Tapatalk. I'll never get credit though (I think it's ironic. Demonize me and ask for me help. Wasn't the first time.) Of course, there was the time when The Pacific asked for my help, and I never got credit for that either. I think The Pacific should hire me as Emperor and Delegate, I have a good resume for the job. *chuckles* I've been planning my NS death for five years. It's very close now. Unless The Pacific wants to hire me as Delegate. I won't hold my breath. Thank you! I have the ability to post in the Hall, but I don't because I'm not a citizen. Besides, I can ramble a bit off topic here, as thread jacking is traditional in TWP. "Dragons coming out of the sea, Shimmering silver head of wisdom looking at me. He brings down the fire from the skies, You can tell he's doing well by the look in human eyes. Better not compromise. It won't be easy."

More old Graphics....I'll spoiler them to spare the thread.

And never forget The Klingon Empire of The West Pacific! And TWP is Legendary:

I changed themes two or three times during my Delegacy. We started out sort of Dune based with the Laandstrad for the Assembly. But no one could remember how to spell it. *chuckles* Later went to the Sacred Order of The West Pacific and The West Pacific Imperium. Policies stayed the same, graphics stayed the same. The theme is just a costume you put on In the end, it's delegate's choice IMO. I mearly added to titles for my themes, so a Minister became Holy Minister and a Guardian became a Cardinal Guardian. In Equilism we went through a period when we changed the theme with each government. By the time they'd gotten to a Game of Thrones theme, they lost me as I didn't know anything about it (still don't) - so was all meaningless to me. Houses, titles, all irrelevant and confusing to me. I like the dragon imagery in the graphics proposal. You can tie that to TWP having had two Delegates associated with Dragons. You could take the Eagle and Crossbones flag and replace the Eagle with a Dragon. I gotta admit, I haven't been fond of TWPAF flags for some time. I think folks are too resistant to making use of the ingame polling. This would still be somewhat restrictive, but it would cast a wider net than the forum and still would be secure: Set the poll to both Native and Large Nation - it will prevent nations from other regions jumping in to vote, and prevent new founded nations from voting. (A nation would have to be about 6 months old to vote...a nation voting age requirement based on game mechanics). You could even form a bi-cameral legislature: ingame based on those polling rules (House), and Hall of Peers voting (Senate), Delegate has veto authority. Although, having a bi-cameral legislature is what got TWP into trouble before. The Senate becomes and exclusionary old boys club that eventually goes inactive and blocks the Delegate (I've seen this movie before) *chuckles* Nothing. I've championed more open citizenship, and removed citizenship oaths when I was delegate. It was never a problem. I haven't been a TWP citizen since oaths were reintroduced. So I'm just being me.

Hmmmm. My first impression: Any theme needs to incorporate traditional TWP. My second impression: Change can be good, and a theme can be a rallying point. But change for the sake of change is useless. *reads other thread* My third impression: These theme proposals don't speak to me. There's nothing wrong with them. But I don't want to live in a Russia or China themed region, I want to live in The West Pacific which has nothing to do with those. Be Original, be TWP. A pirate theme works.....it's not nationality/location specific. An imperial theme works....if it's not RL nation based... TWP should be TWP themed. My fourth impression: None of my prior impressions matter. Doesn't the government represent all those gameside nations too? I refuse to sign an oath to prove I'm active in a region. So my opinion has no weight.

I designed a TWP ambassador credentials page a few years back. twp_ambassador_credentials - bbb.pdf

A Cascade of Crimson, On a field of Sable, Highlighted in Argent, Trimmed in Gold. - The Crimson King, The Crimson Order, House of Westwind Delegate of The North and West Pacifics

But...but.....Crimson!

I recall back in the 70's Peppermint Schnapps was popular among teenagers cruising the strip.

The black queen chants the funeral march The cracked brass bells will ring To summon back the fire witch To the court of the crimson king Restore The Crimson Order ! Hail !

Beyond disappointing to see The Pacific has continued to work with a criminal player such as Block. It's not the first time they've worked with him nefariously, and it's not the first time we've had to call them out about the association. Obviously they didn't learn and don't care. The Pacific needs to return to sound leadership, and governance based on respect, trust, and merited responsibility. The current leadership needs to step down having stained the proud history of the region once again.

In the late 70's was editor of my high school newspaper, The Panther's Cry. I got the position from a competition with a fake newspaper layout...mine was the "Four Wings High Times" (one wing had been blown up by the South Wing Sweat Hogs, another wing had simply disappeared - I had fun with it). Cut and paste layout of typewritten material, PC's were years away yet. In 1979 I penned an article about the Iranian Revolution, the US Embassy was being held hostage at the time. I had to get clearance from the School Board to publish it, as it was considered a controversial topic. I got approval and it ran front page. It was a good article, covering Iranian history as well as the current events. In the 80's I was editor of Christian Light Ministries newsletter, and the Kansas Avicultural Society Magazine. I had an online newsletter delivered to 35 countries in the 90's called Tales Across The Waters for fans of the German band Triumvirat. Was always surprised how large their fan base was in South America, Japan, and Korea. One subscriber/fan in Japan went to temple to have a blessing made for my daughter when she was born. I sponsored a couple 'cultural exchange' concerts in St. Louis in '99, folks we're asking for my autograph - I told them they were nuts. The band reunited and recorded a new album called "The Website Story" inspired by my work, but the record label went bankrupt and the album was never released. (I have the songs and planned artwork, but the band leader won't follow through further. But for a 2000 album, it sound alot like the 80's. Lead singer on that album is now with the Nervous Germans.) At times I've thought about creating an online local news service, the local newspaper is terrible. Live citizen tips and reports would do better.

Once upon a time in a region somewhere in NS......we required all regional officials to post on the forum at least every other day (preferably daily). And an official was also expected to reply to every thread in his/her jurisdiction frequently. Activity begets Activity. The interior official should be posting in interior threads, starting new threads, regularly. Same for Defense, Foreign Affairs, et al. There should be new material in every category frequently. There should never be a category that hasn't had activity in a month or more. Get rid of those categories if you're not using them. In other words, streamline your customer's experience and provide them value. Part of an official's duties is keeping up activity in their area of responsibility. And maintaining the pinned threads, make sure they are up to date and relevant. When officials post regularly, it gives non-officials something of interest to read and maybe respond to. That creates activity. It's really simple. If they cannot do that for a time (keep up this activity level), they should post an absence notice. If they fail to post in a certain time span (one week?), or fail to post a notice of absence, or fail to appoint a deputy in their absence, they need to be replaced quickly. Otherwise the gears of activity slow and stop, and the entire region suffers. One official that's slowed down or inactive will encourage the same in other officials. It becomes a snowball of inactivity if it's not addressed. Today you have Discord, and no one pays attention to the forums because of it. The work needed on the forum doesn't' get done. (Key disclosure here though - I loath Discord, so I'm very biased. I'm a forum rat, not a chatroomer) Some questions: - Is not Customer Service part of your job as a regional official? - Why should people come to the forum when they are constantly encouraged to go to Discord on the RMB? - What value does it provide to your customers that they should sign up for yet another offsite venue? Or should I say.... - Why should players, already being asked to go offsite from the game they joined, be expected to visit multiple offsite venues in order to participate in the game? Or rather said... - The more venues, the more you complicate your customer's experience. Doesn't this obviously drive away potential customers (potential active players)? - Why do you, as a regional administration, require this of your 'citizens'? Join a forum, join Discord, sign an oath...and finally we accept you into the fold as a customer/player. You're demanding too many hoops for your customers (players) to jump through in order to be recognized as 'one of us with the right to have a say'. The game doesn't require this. Player administrations do, and create stagnant oligarchies over the long term. Like IRC, Discord is good for instant interaction, and is more accessible for that purpose than the RMB. Unlike IRC or the RMB, it provides you the ability to create multiple rooms/channels....like forum threads...to organize the conversation. Unlike forums, it does not provide the ability to readily organize and provide easy access to information that hasn't just been posted. Forums provide a better long term organizational and informational situation than Discord. Information can be pinned for presentation, turned into announcements, archived, reorganized, etc etc. Forums are like a book, it has chapters (catagories) sub-chapters (threads). Discord is like a student's notebook. Lots of scattered disorganized notes and information that only the OP can discern and know it's organization, but of much less use to others and newcomers. And yet, the forums aren't being used in their natural capacity. I just noticed yesterday, there are many pinned informational threads here and there around the forum that remain from my Delegacy. Those should have been updated/replaced several Delegacies (years) ago. This is slack housekeeping by successive administrations. I'm not even a TWP citizen (sidetrack: I loath NS citizenship oaths. I'm already in the region, I'm already participating, I'm already contributing....don't make me sign an oath to anything just for being here in order for the 'region' to acknowledge my contributions - it's simply bullshit to act as a gatekeeper to who gets to be part of the 'IN' crowd/oligarchy. End citizenship oaths! One does not need an oath to be held to the standards of the region. That's false reasoning.) Okay.....I gotta run.....