Cormac

That was not previously the case, when Westwind was Delegate. That's certainly a positive development, but one that could be thrown out by the next Delegate -- which is the point, and the problem. This community has no actual input into anything. The Delegate can do whatever he or she wants, which differs not at all from the NPO except that it's justified differently here and is far less organized. What is my "outside agenda"? Whose interests am I pursuing, which other region or organization? This isn't an "outside agenda." This is called an opinion. I'm not saying there is nothing original or good about The West Pacific, but its oligarchical/autocratic philosophy of governance is not one of the things that is original or good. It has been done, so it isn't original, and it's abundantly clear that it isn't good after seeing the results of it over the past several years. TWP has at times been the least active of the Feeders, even less active than the NPO, and is always one of the two least active. The two least active are autocratic; the ones that are thriving are democratic. It's very clear what the problem is in TWP: The problem is that you and the other Guardians are hoarding all of the power and that is holding the region back from being as active as the other Feeders. If I do get people on the forum to agree with me, are we going to be able to advocate this to the in-game region, or are you just going to suppress our posts and eject and ban us like you did to me earlier, still with zero justification?

Feux massively lied to him about the nature of Francoism and the direction in which he wanted to take the NPO. Funkadelia is anti-imperialist and regional sovereigntist, and was attracted to Francoism and the NPO because Feux led him to believe the NPO was going in that direction as well. It is now clear that was total deception, as they are practicing imperialism in and stomping on the sovereignty of Lazarus with the support of raider pilers. You can't really criticize Funkadelia or anyone else in Lazarus for trusting Feux, Milograd, et al. They did everything they could to win that trust, because for a time they needed it, until they were able to eject and ban the people they had deceived. That is the modus operandi of the NPO.

I'm going to point out once again that I was just ejected and banned from this "open and accepting" region for posting a dispatch about a political party. The dispatch only included links back to this forum. I'm going to keep pointing this out until I hear some justification for being ejected and banned besides that I linked to another forum, which I did not, as one can clearly verify by looking at the dispatch. That is very clear, and clearer by the minute. There isn't actually any protection from rogue Delegates. A Delegate not being considered rogue because the Delegate can already do whatever the Delegate wants is not protection from a rogue Delegate, it's inviting them to go ahead and be rogue without any consequences. You "protect" TWP from rogue Delegates by making being rogue an impossibility. The next Delegate could remove the link to this forum completely in favor of a different forum and different form of government, and according to your system that would be peachy. Don't pretend this system protects the community from anything. It protects the Delegate's ability to do whatever he or she wants. The Delegate already has power over the forum community. Westwind ratified treaties with regions by fiat, without consulting the forum community, treaties that mostly affected the forum community. The commander of the military is also appointed by the Delegate, despite the military having almost nothing to do with the in-game region. These are just two examples, there are others. This pretense that the Delegate and forum community are separate is just that: pretense. The forum community has no power over the Delegacy or the Guardians, but the Delegacy and the Guardians exercise whatever power they want to exercise over the forum community. The Vice Delegate is nothing like the Prime Minister position. It holds the second most endorsements in the region, approves membership applications for the Congress, and chairs the Conclave of Guardians (security council). That is literally nothing like the Prime Minister position. Much of it is the same, yes. The biggest changes are: 1. Electing the Delegate instead of autocratic appointment by the outgoing Delegate; 2. Electing the Vice Delegate and other Ministers; 3. Opening up the Guardians to any high endorsement, high influence nation that applies and is approved by the assembly; 4. Drastically increasing the endorsement cap to create a high endorsement, high influence civilian WA community. As opposed to the current circumstances, in which the Delegate has far too much power over everything. There's nothing "outside the box" about TWP's current system. It is, at best, an oligarchy, at worst an autocracy. You make it seem outside the box by going on about how it's really democratic because you have the most endorsements, but you get those endorsements because you tart and WA nations will endorse anyone who tarts, and because the outgoing Delegate appointed you and would have prevented anyone but you from taking the Delegacy anyway. You keep the Delegacy by imposing and enforcing an extremely low endorsement cap that makes it impossible for anyone else to ascend to the Delegacy unless you and the Guardians permit them to do so, and keeps them from gaining enough influence that it would cost you anything significant to eject and ban them. There is nothing democratic about it, and there is nothing "outside the box" about dictatorship. It's been done before and it always has the same result: chronic inactivity. This burst of interest in the region is because you have people here who believe they can change its system, but when they realize they can't, they will leave, as others have left in the past, and everything will fall inactive again. You can accuse me of being here to pursue an outside agenda -- I'm not sure whose agenda you think I'm pursuing though -- but to be honest, the reason I'm here is because The West Pacific has potential and I'm trying to get a fresh start somewhere in NationStates. But TWP's current system is not conducive to attracting dedicated players who want to spend most of their time and activity here, because all of the power is hoarded by the Guardians. This game is about power, like it or not, and as long as you expect other players to contribute while the Guardians hold onto all the power, you will get the same result: It won't happen.

If I misinterpreted you, I apologize. I doubt any apology for the multiple adolescent insults in your post will be forthcoming, but c'est la vie. I'm not sure how the government in the platform would, by necessity, be anymore complex than our current government. We already have a regional assembly, multiple ministries, a judiciary, and a security council. The only thing this platform is proposing is breathing some liberal democracy into institutions this region already has and integrating the in-game and forum communities. That doesn't necessarily create a massive bureaucracy, at least not anything more massive than we have right now. As activity grows, bureaucracy may grow, but that will also be the case with the current institutions if activity ever grows under this system.

Having been ejected and banned for the high crime of creating a political party, I need to change my nation in the region. It is now: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_goblin_king I'm not sure this one will get to stay either, but I guess we'll all find out together.

The goal here is to provide to The West Pacific the same kind of government that has brought years of activity and stability to The East Pacific, The North Pacific, The South Pacific, The Rejected Realms, and more recently over the past two years, Osiris. Those regions have activity in both their in-game regions and their off-site forums that The West Pacific hasn't experienced under this flawed oligarchical system for years upon years. But please, Elegarth, enlighten me: What is so wrong with The North Pacific? It's the largest region in the world, its Delegate has more endorsements than any Delegate in NationStates by far, its RMB is so active I can't keep up with it, and its forum is incredibly active with activity everywhere from RP to foreign affairs to legislation to military to WA voting. But no, you're right, we must avoid becoming like TNP. Besides, the government proposed in this platform is very different from TNP's. You need to go back and read the dispatch again, Madame Delegate, because the links were links to register on this forum, to apply to join this Holy Grand Assembly, and then to post in this thread. I deeply apologize for inviting residents of The West Pacific to register on their own region's forum, linked in their own WFE.

I'm confused how this was "advertising" unless you also can't advertise regional information on the regional RMB. I wasn't recruiting for another region, I was trying to get residents of TWP to join a peaceful political party that is hosted on this region's regional forum. This party is no different than the other parties in this forum except that I'm not advocating that we should maintain the status quo -- unlike, for example, the Revolutionary Party, I'm being honest. Milograd would pretend to support this system until he weasels his way into your Delegacy, then he would impose whichever system he wanted. I'm being honest: I think this system sucks, and I think it should be changed. I think change should come from within too, that's why I was advertising it to residents of TWP on the RMB. Your response to that was to suppress, eject, and ban. The idea that this region's government is a game mechanics "democracy" because WA nations are endorsing you is a sham, because when someone proposes change you boot them from the region just like Krulltopia or Stujenske would. Just hand the Delegacy over to Elegarth now, Darkesia, at least he'll be more honest in his autocracy.

Platform of the Democratic Union Party of The West Pacific Introduction The Democratic Union Party advocates change, real change that will create a more vibrant in-game and forum community. The Democratic Union Party advocates community empowerment by giving resident nations of The West Pacific the opportunity to actively participate in the governance of their region through their regional assembly. The Democratic Union Party advocates responsible government through the active election of the Delegate, as well as other regional officers, via the regional community forum, rather than passive endorsement of a Delegate chosen by the outgoing Delegate or the Guardians. The Democratic Union Party advocates justice and accountability through the creation of an independent but accountable judiciary. The Democratic Union Party advocates security and stability through creation of a more open security council, and abolition of the fixed endorsement cap in favor of a much higher limit that will allow for a high endorsement, high influence civilian WA community. The Democratic Union Party advocates accomplishment of these goals through community outreach, legislative change, and peaceful elections, rather than through subversion, intimidation, or force. The Democratic Union of The West Pacific The Democratic Union Party will seek enactment of a new Governing Charter of The West Pacific that will create the Democratic Union of The West Pacific, and will mandate the following: 1. Empowering the Community: The Congress of The West Pacific The Congress of The West Pacific will be the regional assembly, open to all residents of The West Pacific who wish to join and are approved by the Vice Delegate, whose decisions to reject an application may be reviewed and overturned by the Congress. The Congress will be the supreme governing authority of The West Pacific and will have the power to make any law, treaty, or policy that it determines would benefit the region and its community. A Speaker, elected every two months, will preside over the Congress. The Governing Charter will also mandate rights of residency that will be guaranteed to every nation residing in The West Pacific, as well as rights of Congress members that would not be applicable to residents who aren't involved in the Congress. 2. Responsible Government: The Executive Council of The West Pacific The Congress will elect an Executive Council every four months to carry out executive governance of The West Pacific on behalf of the Congress. Officers of the Executive Council will be limited to two consecutive terms in office. The Executive Council will be comprised of the following elected officers: Delegate: The Delegate will serve as regional Head of State and will be the first among equals on the Executive Council, chairing and deciding the agenda of its meetings. The Delegate will also be responsible for regional World Assembly affairs. Vice Delegate: The Vice Delegate will hold the second highest endorsement count in the region, will serve as liaison between the Executive Council and the Conclave of Guardians, the regional security council, and will be responsible for reviewing applications for membership in the Congress. Minister of Foreign Affairs: The Minister of Foreign Affairs will be responsible for conducting diplomacy with other regions, in consultation with the Executive Council, and for maintaining a diplomatic corps. Minister of Military Affairs: The Minister of Military Affairs will be responsible for administration and command of the military, which will act according to the interests of The West Pacific. Minister of Community Affairs: The Minister of Community Affairs will be responsible for regional community events, activities, and integration of the in-game and forum communities. Officers of the Executive Council may appoint deputies to assist them in their responsibilities. 3. Justice and Accountability: The High Court of The West Pacific The High Court of The West Pacific will have the power to interpret the Governing Charter and all laws made under its authority, to overturn laws that contradict the Governing Charter, to restrain government actions that contradict the law, and to hear criminal trials, decide convictions, and determine sentencing. The High Court will be comprised of three justices, appointed to six month terms by nomination of the Executive Council and confirmation by the Congress. Justices will have no term limits and may serve for as long as the Executive Council and Congress are willing to nominate and confirm them, to ensure both accountability and independence of the High Court. 4. Security and Stability: The Conclave of Guardians The Conclave of Guardians will grandfather in the current Guardians, provided they are willing to defend the Democratic Union against coup d'etat, and will then be open to any nation that wishes to join, provided the nation meets endorsement and influence requirements mandated by law, and is approved by the Congress. This will create a dedicated and, over time, large security council to ensure the security and stability of the region against rogue Delegates and, less likely, invading forces. The Conclave will be chaired and supervised by the elected Vice Delegate. Additionally, the Governing Charter will abolish the endorsement cap, mandating only that a nation may not exceed the Vice Delegate's endorsements, which will encourage the growth of a high endorsement, high influence civilian WA community as well. The Democratic Union Party is not accepting members at this time. Thank you for your interest!

Ainur appointed forum destroyer 94 Block to command their military. That was strike one. Ainur retained forum destroyer 94 Block to command their military after he took up arms against a fellow GCR. That was strike two. Ainur dispatched forum destroyer 94 Block to conduct diplomacy with The West Pacific via their forum embassy. That was strike three. Ainur is, in my opinion, out. I move to close Ainur's forum embassy.

I'm not "meddling," I'm trying to get involved here. But as you wish, Madame Delegate. Good luck with the NPO.

I nominate Consular.

Darkesia, with all due respect, this doesn't make any sense. Let me eliminate the proper nouns here to demonstrate how little sense it makes: "No, I am not concerned, even a little, about a current Senator of the New Pacific Order. Not even a little. A former Senator of the New Pacific Order on the other hand..." To be clear, I'm not saying not to be concerned about Pestarzt/Milograd. That's just good sense. But it doesn't make any sense not to be concerned about Elegarth as well, while he is serving as a Senator of the New Pacific Order, it just doesn't. The Senate is the primary governing institution of the NPO these days with Krulltopia playing a minor governing role. The NPO Senate is carrying out this imperialist aggression against other Feeders and Sinkers. If Elegarth actually disagrees with that direction, he needs to at the very least resign from the Senate if not from the NPO altogether. Expecting anyone to believe he is not a threat to the sovereignty of any other Feeder or Sinker while he is serving in the NPO Senate is expecting too much though. I hate to defend the imperialists, but the collapse of the UIAF does not mean the collapse of its former constituent regions. We have treaties with the regions, not with the UIAF. I'm not sure about The New Inquisition, but Albion and The Land of Kings and Emperors are both still capable of fielding powerful forces, far more numerous than anything TEP or TSP have to offer. So yes, we can still turn there, and given that we already have treaties on the books with those regions, we should turn there if and when necessary. I'm not saying you're wrong for suggesting new alliances, by the way, I'm just saying that with the exception of the alliance with the NPO, there is nothing wrong with the alliances TWP has now. I may not like the imperialist regions, personally, but they will honor their treaty obligations to TWP should any threat from the NPO (or anyone else) arise, and they are still more than capable of doing so.

A few observations: 1. It's been my understanding of The West Pacific's position toward game mechanics that its recognition of in-game Delegates is not absolute. Sure, The West Pacific recognizes a Delegate who is kept in power with native endorsements even if the forum government and other governments consider that Delegate rogue. Is it not a problem, though, when the Delegate loses dozens of native endorsements over the span of a few days, and those endorsements are replaced by the endorsements of foreign imperialists from the NPO and foreign raiders? Is it not a problem when that Delegate would have lost power with the withdrawal of native endorsements, but is kept in power by foreign endorsements? Is it not a problem when this is admitted to be a takeover by a foreign government? And if it is not a problem, how is that consistent with The West Pacific's regional sovereigntist stance? 2. The West Pacific's position on Lazarus aside, the NPO's statement should be concerning, as Punk Daddy argues. Is this a region with which The West Pacific seriously wants to maintain an alliance? The NPO statement makes clear that it basically regards the ultimate destiny of all Feeders and Sinkers to be joining the New Pacific Order, either voluntarily or in the same manner as Lazarus (i.e., by force). That is imperialism, it is certainly not respect for regional sovereignty, and the disrespect for regional sovereignty extends to The West Pacific as well as to other Feeders and Sinkers. I think The West Pacific should be taking a serious look at its alliance with the NPO and I very much agree with Punk Daddy that being more cautious about NPO officials in this government is wise. Sorry, Senator Elegarth, but if you don't want people to hold you in suspicion because of the actions of the NPO, that would be a lot easier if you were not tacitly supporting their imperialist aggression against sovereign regions by remaining in their Senate. If you had serious problems with this direction, you would not still be representing the NPO as a Senator. 3. Regarding the forum destruction problem, putting 94 Block aside it should be pointed out that Senator Feux has taken the former Lazarus forum offline. If the forum remains offline and remains inaccessible to its former community, in an act that can only be seen as malicious when put in context, that is forum destruction just as deletion of the forum is forum destruction. According to COPS, taking a forum "out of service" is forum destruction and taking it permanently offline to deprive a community of its history and information certainly qualifies. All in all, I think this calls for a serious reevaluation of The West Pacific's approach to the New Pacific Order. The West Pacific terminated relations with Gatesville, a long time ally, for far less.

I promise I'm not following you.

Maybe it will stick this time. http://www.nationstates.net/nation=united_celts Edit: Also I should perhaps not be masked as your WA minister anymore.

And yet you've signed away The West Pacific's foreign policy to the UIAF. What did they give you for that, Westwind? Or did you do it for free? TWP is a joke.

I have to admit I'm curious why the Assembly never had any input in regard to our existing treaties. I understand that the Delegate has absolute game-side power, but treaties are related to the forum government and our treaties have some provisions that are either shared with the forum government or virtually exclusive to the forum government. Each of our treaties has military provisions. The military, while its actions are taken game-side, is organized via the forum. Each of our treaties has intelligence provisions. While intelligence can be related to game-side activity, it is coordinated on the forum and many intelligence matters are forum related. Each of our treaties has cultural components. Most culture between regions takes place on the forum. I guess I'm trying to figure out by what authority the Delegate of The West Pacific signs a treaty that impacts the forum community without consulting the forum community. To be fair, I understand that Darkesia didn't sign any of these treaties but for a variety of practical reasons must now honor them, so it would be Westwind I'm looking to hear from on this. Why sign treaties and commit the forum government and community to alliances and obligations stemming from those alliances without consulting the forum government and community? And for what reason do you believe you even had the authority to do that?

Could I have temporary moderation over the WA subforums, at least until a WA Minister is elected? That way I can pin threads and such.

This would normally be my position too, but as the ranks were apparently altered with very little consultation with the people who have previously been serving in TWPAF, that would seem to indicate that Assembly oversight is needed. There's very little point to TWPAF if it isn't making the people serving in it happy, because there will no longer be people serving in it.

I tend to agree with Archsium that military and intelligence should be separate portfolios, but it appears to me that they are basically separate -- just both under the Armed Forces. The intelligence division nonetheless is separate from the military division. So I'm personally comfortable with that part. I do agree though that the chain of command is a bit more complicated than necessary. I don't think there's anything wrong with Delegate > Division Heads. The intelligence division does need some degree of autonomy, as its work should really, in its totality, only be totally known to one or two people. Those one or two people should be the Delegate and the head of the intelligence division. And I don't think we need a position that is just responsible for appointing and overseeing the two division heads; the Delegate can appoint them, and the Delegate and Assembly together can oversee them, at least the military which undertakes public actions that are reviewable by the Assembly. Agreed with the Delegate rather than the Prime Minister making these appointments. Military and intelligence have a direct relationship to game-side and fall under the Delegate's purview; they're not just a component of the forum government.

I agree with these two points, so I'm in favor of repeal as well.

That's awesome, congrats!

I'm in the Taijitu Citizen's Milita and the Spiritus Defense Force. Both worked with TWPAF, et al. on the liberation of Scotland. It was a fun time!

My cat Dexter: http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q587/ucfm_cormac/4ba7087e-5901-4621-8b4e-35457e09db7b_zpsa3b269b3.jpg Before anyone asks, that was his name when I got him at the shelter. I did not deliberately name my cat after a fictional serial killer and I prefer to think of it like Dexter from Dexter's Laboratory anyway. I've had him since December 2013 -- hard to believe it's been that long already -- and he's literally my best friend. I don't even care that I'm a crazy cat person now. Also he is not for dinner.

Could someone move this thread from the SC to the GA subforum: http://www.westpacific.org/forums/index.php?/topic/1215-queue-repeal-suppress-international-piracy/?view=getnewpost