Elegarth

To address the first one, the Council could easily be made BY the Governors and the Advocate?? Is an idea, we could call it the Governor's Council. And to the second paragraph, is in my PENDING part: indictment or challenge system to remove them, not sure how to implement it or handle it.

Yes and no. The Voice, as a whole, outranks them all - including its advocate - but ideally, the Advocate's role is representation and coordination, not oversight and supervision. If the advocate is ranked ABOVE the governors, then the departments are also under his oversight, mixing again the executive part and the legislative part, and with it, you get to the same problem of an inactive advocate potentially killing all decision making. My opinion is that the Advocate, as a serving members of The Voice, be considered on the same rank as the Governors. Again, the consultative body called the Voice is the oversight, not the person who embodies its will. This is: is not the advocate who hires or fires people. Is the Voice as a whole.

Ok, since this is an ongoing discussion, I've edited the main text and made a note for final versions as we discuss things along

Ok, give me a bit then... I'll do it soon

Do you want me to introduce the changes in the current proposal text, or do a next text, URA?

As far as I understood, no. URA would need to confirm. Otherwise, your suggestions are pretty good, again, imo.

I did missed it. You made amazing comments there indeed.

I've got no idea what you mean. If I were condescending I wouldn't be discussing. I would be dismissing people with jokes, or silly-talking to them.

Valid points. Vice-Delegate is only meant to be used as a secondary communication tool and decision malingr in case of justified delegate absence. The governors imo should be appointed and removed by the voice, either through indictment or challenge. But I t am not sure about how the delegate wanted to do that. The lawmaking, I feel you may be right about it.

It has more changes than that, but they are as minimal as possible to adapt the voice - that seemed to me the preferred thing from people - and the delegate ideas. The main changes are: - depts are no longer under the advocate supervision, this is, the DAs rebranded as governors are no longer below the advocate, and hence an in active advocate would not stop activity of the departments. - guardian supervision and coordination of the areas that are more in-game than offsite, with a voice governor to attempt unified activity - the vice-delegacy position, which (this is important) is not tied to a delegacy succession in any way, but formalizes some form of deputy to oversee activity of the governors/other guardian. There are in my personal opinion several improvable things on this, some of which I can't really think of - meaning that I feel the fix is needed but can't totally pinpoint or solve it - and hence why I wanted to bring it out: more eyes see more. The Union just needed activity imo, and I think it was in the process of recovering it.

The fact that you fail to see the difference is either cultural or on purpose. In both cases, we seem to hit a wall of your own devise. Awesome.

Yes you just showed you are lying, as I never called anyone anything, I did used the adjectives on the big bad wolf belief. Thanks for showing yourself wrong!

An idea is mine, but is not me. Isn't this a normal logic?

If you are gonna lie, please present evidence of me calling anyone stupid? Intelligent people can have stupid ideas and calling the idea stupid does not qualifies the person. Get your attempts to discredit people straight, please. I've openly and willingly called certain beliefs and ideas "childish", and other adjectives, but I haven't refereed to anyone as that. I don't understand how hard it is to see this difference

The Voice was not going to be in the proposal, but due to some Guardians request in behalf of the people, URA accepted to incorporate it back in.

Great play, great reading I should say. Never seen it live.

I'd like to preface that, while I have helped to write this up, this is not based of my personal ideas, but from the discussions among the Guardians and the Ideas that the Delegate has of where he would like to see the region and the off-site community go. As far as I understand, this is a proposal that can still be adjusted, modified, tweaked and discussed with everyone, in order to improve it or adapt it as desired. This thread should NOT be the place for counter proposals. However, suggestions, opinions, questions, doubts about this proposal per se are obviously MORE than welcome. I put this here in the name of URA - not on my own - and open the discussions for it: NOTE 1

And yet, opinions are like belly buttons: everyone has one. I value yours greatly, but it stills feels how it feels. Again, I didn't even make this choice, so I won't spent any more single second and let the decision maker hold it on his own, if he so chooses to. I'm tired of the drama.

So you are only the sum of what is old? and not what is not so old? How do you manage that? You decide based on opinion? Seems quite an imposition... "What I like is what it is"? Heh, funny And this including than I'm not even the one who has kept it here, all in all /me shrugs You can continue trying to sell a point. I'll respect the Delegate's decision whatever it is.

Just as defensive as I was of TWP when TNP started criticizing Darkesia's decisions regarding the delegacy, so no issues as I see it. My homes will ALWAYS be my homes, and if I weren't defending them, I'd be an hypocrite, which I'm not.

I hate this mobile >_> Finally, the dissolution or continuity of the position does not depends on me, nor have I given my opinion on it. The delegate I work for has decided to keep it, and that is enough for me. If he decides to dismiss it, I will support it likewise. Is not much call.

Furthermore: the reference to you is meant to dissuade some comments regarding Vlagh forcing his way into the position, others claiming it was recently made up, or that it is non TWP sourced. The fact that you created the position is historically accurate and I'll use historical accuracy as an argument anytime I need it. Ura, upon becoming delegate, decided to keep him and his position, and he remains capable to undo it. If you think is meant otherwise, you interpreted it wrong. Curiously enough, I wouldn't have kept it *me shrugs*

Fear of the bad evil NPO is childish. I am not calling the dissenter childish, but their belief. Huge difference

It does in some cases and we both know is true

Ivan is a former Emperor and now Emperor again of TP. Lokg standing NPO player. Vlagh is an old TWP member as well, with years of active collaboration on this region. Old players had characters working independently in several regions. I play 4 different regions and in all of them I have different goals and approaches. So stop with the big bad wolf non-sense, is 1) stupid, 2) childish and 3) getting old. Every time another player brings up that it just a veiled attempt at calling your guardians useless and clueless...