Military RP Info

[Westwind]

(Thanks to Thesh for making this, from 2004)

 

 

Q. How many troops is it possible for me to field? I have 100 million total population.

A. After extensive research at the World Factbook, a general pattern was noticed in relation to a nation and it's military. In general, a nation only spends between 2-5% of it's total GPD (Gross Domestic Product). Also, only about 1/4 of a total population are military age and health (aged 18-50). However, obviously 1/4 of your population is not going to be in the military. This is where another general pattern was observed, that nations would have approximately 1-2% of it's military age and health population in the actual military. Take 2% as the top limit, and fluctuating downwards from there.

So how does this affect your 100 million population Nation State?

- Total Pop: 100M
- Mil Age/Health cap: 25M (refered to as military age/health cap)
- Military Possible: 500,000

Q. Okay, so I have 500,000 troops in my 100 million population. What next?

A. Actually, if you read carefully, the 500,000 is only MILITARY POSSIBLE. This means that this is the total amount of army you could possible have. But different things affect how close to the 2% of the military age/health cap you can go. For example: if your economy is very strong, frightening, huge, then you can spend more money on military, hence pushing you towards the military possible cap. But if your economy is imploded, then you aren't going to have too much money to spend on military. Also, government spending areas affect your military. If your nation spends solely on defense, then you'll be pushed towards the cap. However, if your government struggles under many competing demands, like defense, welfare, religion, etc then you'll have less to spend. Let's call all these influencing factors "Nation Quality".

 

Example:
Say you have an average run-of-the-mill nation: economy: average. Expenditure: 3 areas including defense. You are more likely to be at the mid-range of the 1-2% of the military age/health population cap. Take the 100M total population for your nation.

- Total Pop: 100M
- Mil Age/Health cap: 25M
- Military Possible: 500,000
- Nation Quality: Average (makes the % of Mil Age/Health cap at 1.5%)
- Gunwielding Helmet-heads (army), Wing Nuts (air force) & Navy: 375,000

Q. Okay cool. So my average quality, military conscription nation of 100 million people has 375,000 in the defense force.

A. Hang on a second. Conscription actually changes everything again. Conscription is the basis of compulsory military service, meaning that for a time in a person's life you WILL BE in the military. Conscription usually goes for 5 years, so we'll take that as the base. Also, as 18 is the start age of military service (in most countries) the conscription age will be 18-23. Of your population aged 18-50, approximately 1/6th will be under conscription. This equates to 16.666666666666%. For simplicity, let's call it 17%. So this means, instead of the 1-2% from the Mil Age/Health cap, you will be looking at 10-17% from the Mil Age/Health cap (remembering to slide between those figures depending on nation quality). After all this is taken into account, you need to remember that conscripts are NOT the same quality as volunteer troops (they're forced into service). Based on non-conscript nations, we know that between 1-2% of the Mil Age/Health cap will be volunteers (see above). So TOTAL FORCES = Conscripts + Volunteers.

Example:
Take your average quality, military conscription nation of 100 million.

- Total Pop: 100M
- Mil Age/Health cap: 25M
- Military Possible: 4.25M
- Nation Quality: Average (makes the % of Mil Age/Health cap at 13.5%)
- Numbers in Defense Force: 3,375,000
- Number of Volunteers: 375,000 (1.5% of Mil Age/Health cap based on nation quality)
- Number of conscripts: 3,000,000

Q. Excellent! So I've got 4M troops! I'm going to invade you with my 4M troops.

A. Let me just stop you right there. It's not going to happen, in this world or another. For starters, how many transport ships do you need to move that many troops to another nation over the sea, remembering that a transport ship will probably only carry 1000 troops and equipment? That's 4,000 troopships if you're wondering. Also, how big is your port? You can probably only load 10 ships a day, so that's around 100 days just to load the transports. So that's 100 days to load 1000 ships with your 4M troops. Feel a bit ridiculous now? Yes you should!

Every nation is going to keep a standing army. The US only sent about 200,000 troops total to the Persian Gulf, and that took them 6 months to get the troops there and supply them. If you say that 1/4 of your defense force is able to be used in a way somewhere else, then you're not too far from the truth. But if it's your nation being invaded, then if you say 3/4 of your defense force is fighting (1/4 dispersed across the land as defense) is close to the truth too.

Q. So I'm getting a handle on this military thing. What about individual divisions, platoons and companies? How many men are in those?

A. After a bit of research, and my own experience in the army, the following table is good for most situations. But remember, each country has its own definition of how many troops in each bit.

- Platoon: 100 men
- Company: 300 men
- Regiment: 1000 men (3 companies + HQ + auxillery)
- Division: 10000 men (10 regiments)
- Army group: 50000 men (5 divisions)

 

(Yes I know the numbers for division and army group are different to what I originally said, I've updated my table)

 

Similarly for vehicle divisions (tanks, arty, mobile SAM, etc) we can use this table:

- 100 vehicles = division (APCs, Troop trucks, tanks)
- 50 guns = division (artillery/mobile SAM/mobile rocket launchers)
- 100 planes = air wing/squadron (division in another name)
- 50 bombers = bomber group (strategic and tactical)

 

Navy is a different state of affairs. If we simply said that there's 250 men per ship, then it's not too far wrong (this includes mechanics, cooks, supply, officers, auxillery, etc). There's no static model to use for a fleet. As many ships as you want can be in a fleet.

Q. If there's a war going on, and my troops are involved, then what sort of losses will I be taking?

A. Hopefully you'll be reasonable on this topic. You need to take into account many different things including:

- Number of your troops
- Number of enemy troops
- Who's defending (defenders are generally fortified/dug in/etc)
- who's lands you are in (the owner's forces have an advantage because they know the land)
- Support units (whether someone calls in an air strike, or naval bombardment, or even artillery)
- Type of troops on both sides (you'll lose a lot of bombers if you face off against fighters)
- Situation of attack (see below)

 

The situation of the attack can be so variable. For instance, if you are invading a defended beach (like the allies did in France 1944 at Normandy) then you are going to lose about 3/4's of your invasion force. See saving Private Ryan to understand this. However, if you\'re defending a mountain pass where you're dug in with black ops, and a conscript army comes waltzing up the pass, you're going to slaughter them and lose almost no-one. This is where honesty and acceptance MUST come in on your behalf. If you feel you've been hard done by, raise it nicely so we can discuss the situation. This is a game, not real warfare. We're all reasonable people.

Importantly, if you're RPing in a war, try to state everything down in your post. Don't worry about exposing state secrets, only public knowledge can be acted upon by other nations (unless spied on).

 

Example post:
My defenses include 1 division of conscript regulars, 100 tanks and 50 artillery support. The troops are dug in and camo-ed at the top of a hill protecting a large open fielded area. A fighter squadron is on alert for any sign of enemy flight incursions and will scramble immediately. There is 5 battleships about 3 miles away in a bay ready to support by shore bombardment.

This means to me, if I were to attack I'd be fighting uphill against dug-in troops, under constant artillery and battleship bombardment and being seen all the way in the fields. If I were tall call in an air-strike, they'd be attacked instantly by the enemy fighters, and if I tried to bring in naval support I'd have to contend with battleships.

 

[Vesica]

On the case of military based posts, military RP is quite common in Equilism and myself and another member regularly went at it, in both World War 2, World War 1 and in the common day with out current Cold War. I will post what we viewed to be the best example of "military" posts to show advanced RPing

[ATR1234]

I was also wondering if we all must use the same guns as I use heckler and koch and colt firearms

[Tweedy]

That advanced, eh? I'm still into finely-honed stone axes!

[Vesica]

I wouldn't say same gun, but I'd say use same ERA of weapon... here an example of a pair of posts from combat between the European Commonwealth, and the People's Federation of Hungary and Slovakia... equilivent of say a militarized European Union fighting against Iraq equipped with American weapons.

 

*The First Airborne Brigade was an old and prestigious Dutch unit. Colonel Hendrick de Keyser had commanded the brigade for eight years. He'd fought in the Czech Liberation, and on peacekeeping and special forces missions all around the world, and he had never been as scared as he was as he and his men took control of Terminal One of Budapest Ferenc Liszt International Airport while under the heaviest fire he had ever seen. Fear was something the Red Devils of the 1st Brigade knew well. Fear kept them focused. Fear helped them see clearer and move faster. Red Devils control their fear. They channel it.

As well as fear, he felt anger. There were no two ways about it. Intel had screwed up. The Feds had way more AA capability left than had been thought. Now his brigade was stranded until the air defence could be neutralized and support troops flown in, and that had to happen before the force which massively out-gunned and outnumbered his killed him and all his men. It was a nightmare. 

While he still has contact with his higher ups, he secures air-support priority around the airport. The ground attack aircraft which were incoming were to target any and all federation heavy weapons so they couldn't simply shell Terminal 1 into the ground. The Colonel takes an agressive stance, waging a bloody but effective operation of CQB in the cramped terminal corridors rather than it's open spaces, both to deny the Federation's number advantage and lessen their ability to call in support without blasting their own men to hell as well.*

---

*Meanwhile the 2nd Commonwealth Armored Division, 7th Mechanised Infantry Division and 1st Czech Armored brigade stormed into Tatybanya. The II Corps commander, Lieutenant General Julia Verne, was well on top of the situation. Tatybanya was held by a number of Federation units, including a fearsome unit of fascist Czechs. A reasonable amount of the enemy's remaining armor was arrayed there under the 3rd Armored Infantry Division and 7th Armored Guards and would need to be dealt with swiftly if momentum into Budapest could be maintained. The General ordered a series of Black Hammer runs from the 7th Fighter-Bomber Wing over the city, who aggressively target Federation armor with the aid of laser designators on the ground. The 2nd Armored spearheaded the assault with support from the 7th Mechanised and 1st Armored Brigade, which move in from the north west and south west respectively.*

---

*Meanwhile Verne's counterpart, Lieutenant General Azim Ambani, who commanded the V Corps, had moved south from Vac to take Dunakezi, facing a more powerful enemy (which included a strong armor division) with the Commonwealth 3rd Armored Division, 4th Armored Division and 18th Mechanised Infantry Division. Also integral was the presence of two air defense batallions, which restricted the ability of the air force to eliminate the enemy armor as effectively as in Tatybanya. His solution puts him on the phone to the 14th Bomber Wing, who sent a dozen cruise missiles apeice (courtesy of the hulking Emancipator bombers) at Northeastern and Northwestern Air Defence Regiments to clear the way for heavier and more numerous air support. To buy time for the missile strike, the 3rd Armored moved east towards Fot through the fields aiming to attack whatever forces of the Northeastern Military District came before them from the east while the main assault of the two other divisions hit them from the north. Also on standby were aircraft who would destroy the Megyeri Bridge if the Northwestern Military District tried to send ground forces across the Danube to Dunakezi.*

---

*SATCOM was working to systematically pinpoint the locations of the remaining Patriot launchers and destroy them. Once they had been sufficiently thinned, General Johann Westerholt would play his trump card from the air, hopefully delivering the coup de grâce to the defenders of the Presidential Palace (and Budapest in turn) in a particularly precise, extremely thunderous manner...*

 

*Lieutenant General Zoltán looked at the situation in Terminal One with a truly grim pragmatism and a calmness that couldn't quite be described. He was personally commanding the defence of the Airport, and the entire Southeastern Military District from the Skycourt. The First Family and the Interior Minister were already on their way south for Slavic Airspace, and from there to continue onto the Greater Arabian Empire, with F-18SH escorts. If the Commonwealth truly wanted to kill the President's family and the Minister of the Interior there was little likely the Federation could do... but with the Battle for Budapest now entering a fever pitch, and the direct flightpath between the Presidential transports, and the Commonwealth Air Force now being intercepted by Budapest and its impressive AA defences it was hoped they could at least escape. He had personally elected to stay behind to watch over the defence of this place, buy them time, and to fight for as long as he could; he was still a member of the Federation Army and would fight as such.*

*He had to give credit where credit was due; the First Airborne Brigade was putting up an excellent defence in the de-funct Terminal One. However for one the first and only times of this campaign he had the advantage on his Commonwealth adversaries; and while he would give them every bit of honor they deserved, he would still need to bring them down so that he could focus his forces north again. The key advantage the Federation forces held here; because of the presence of Patriots within Budapest the radar facilities of the airport had still been very much intact, and were able to still coordinate strikes now. As Commonwealth air support came in, it was identified from a distance, which allowed the 3rd Air Defence Battalion, Patriot sites and the last remnants of the Federation Air Force, and the Federation Guard Air Wing, to pounce on them. Zoltan didn't want to give the 1st Airborne Brigade any advantages, and pulled the bulk of his forces out of Terminal One, truly allowing them to shell Terminal One with artillery and armor from the 4th Federation Guard Armored Regiment. Entrances from the holed up Terminal were watched with machine guns, and from hardened defensive points the Federation forces had prepared for the eventual Commonwealth assault this far down effectively pushing the 1st Airborne Brigade into an impossible position; either surrender which he knew they wouldn't do, stay in Terminal One and have it come down around their ears, or come out and fight, where the armor and superior numbers of the defending Federation forces would tear them to pieces. Zoltan grimaced... he wouldn't have wanted to be the Commonwealth Commander today.*

---------------------

*The commanders of the Federation Army's elite Armored Divisions all had a certain MO. All were high ranking members of the ruling Slovakian and Hungarian People's Party, all were life long members of the Hungarian Military, but key above all was their utter fanaticism. The commander of the 3rd Armored Infantry, Brigadier General Sebeök Megyer, was by no means any exception. The man was truly a Federation fanatic and zealot, having personally used his unit to put down revolts and hold onto Gyor for as long as he could. The fact he had been forced out of there when the Federation Guard had fought onto the end was a thing of deep dishonor to him, and it was something he planned on rectifying here. He had received orders directly from President Schmitt to hold the line here at all costs, e and ven though the odds were stacked stoutly against him, it was his absolute conviction and belief that he would somehow defeat the Commonwealth II Corps in front of him.*

*To the troops on the ground, the situation was significantly more bleak, and they were quite aware of it. Their General's fanatic defence of Gyor had cost them two entire Regiments, and heavily depleted the 6th Infantry Regiment; all told the 3rd Armored Infantry Division only had 7,000 of the original 15,000 left, though thanks to the efforts of the Division's XO, most of their armor was still intact. Thankfully the 9th Mechanized Infantry Brigade hadn't been asleep at the switch, and had fortified this key town to the capital to a far thee well, and the reinforcement by the 7th Federation Guard Regiment had helped significantly. Still they were woefully outnumbers, and without the air defences that Budapest had and was hoarding they were going to take a beating from the air; they would have to make due.*

*Brigadier General Megyer had the 9th Mechanized Infantry Brigade holding the centre against the 2nd Armored Divisions advance, using the urban environment to grind the campaign along and cost the Commonwealth and Czechs as many casualties as possible. He had received a fresh shipment of Stringers, AT4 and most of all Javelins and planned on using them as effectively as possible. The 9th Mechanized the largest unit he had open to him, and while he didn't have the same sort of armored support his own 3rd Armored and the 7th FG Armored Regiment had, they were still reasonably equipped and if anyone had any chance of holding the line; they did. In the northwest, covering Gyon Way and most importantly the M1 Highway, was the remains of the General 3rd Armored Infantry Division, which fought like demons possessed to keep the Commonwealth from pushing onwards. Their primary disadvantage was the fact they fought in a more open environment, and it was costing them, but they fought hard, and clearly weren't interested in retreating, his troops for the most part channeling their General's fanaticism. In the southwest however a much different battle was playing out.*

*Brigadier General Megyer had known early where the supporting Czechs were going to attempt to push into the country, and he planned on using that to his fullest advantage. Up against them he unleashed Ezredvezető (Regiment Leader) Lel Zyskowskiin's 7th "Czech" Federation Guard Armored Regiment. The Czech 1st Armored Brigade was built up to the same strength as the elite Federation unit, making it for the most a purely even fight; this was going to come down to who wanted it more, and the wily Megyer had chosen the 7th FG Armored for specifically this reason; they despised the current regime in the Czech Republic and he knew they would fight harder all the more because of it. The 7th "Czech" was without a doubt the best equipped unit within Megyer's command, and stood about on par with the 1st Armored Brigade. If it wasn't for the fact that the Czech had Commonwealth air support, and were advancing with the 2nd Armored Division, this fight may have taken significantly longer, and may have lasted for days. As it was however, even with those advantages the Czech Federation Guards didn't given ground, didn't give any quarter, and didn't take prisoners, anyone foolish enough to surrender on either side quickly realized this was for keeps and was shot subsequently. The battles for western Tatabanya was going to be, at least in this case, a fight to the bitter end.*

---------------------------------------------

*The northeast situation was desperate to General Benko, but he knew that he needed to trade space for time... plain and simple to him the outer most cities and towns from the capital were unimportant; if he pulled out of them, he could save their civillians who would for the most part simply allow the war to pass by them. To General Benko that was all that mattered.... not to say he wasn't taking the situation seriously, but no means, but he didn't see a point for fighting for that ground when there were far more important things to worry about.*

*General Benko had already ordered the 1st Armored Division to pull back into District XV, where the Federation planned on making its real stand, Even as the Commonwealth's Cruise Missiles were inbound, the positions they were attempting to annihilate had already been abandoned. Combined with the active radar from Budapest International Airport; until that airport was captured or neutralized, Air Support within Budapest proper was going to be fairly neutered from the presence of multiple Patriot sites, the still active Federation Air Force over the city, and the Federation's uncanny ability to hide their AA defences within the thick urban environment. The Federation also appeared to have thought ahead from the Commonwealth and even as the thought came across their minds, the Megyeri Bridge blew up from Federation explosives, sealing off the two Military Districts from one another.*

*Even as the 3rd Armored Division advanced they would find little to no resistance, outside of pockets that the 1st Armored Division had left behind as it pulled back into Budapest. It would seem the real fight for V Corps was inside the city itself... which was made even more worriesome when Commonwealth intelligence learned that the Federation's finest armor commander, Major General Kaszás Vayk, the commander of the elite 1st Armored Division was taking over personal command of the Northeast Military District by order of President Schmitt himself, setting the stage for a prolonged engagement.*

---------------------------------

*The Federation had cleverly hidden their Patriot and AA sites throughout the city and were likely only going to reveal them as needed, and move them as necessary, it would extend their life, and while it wouldn't make them go on forever, in this critical battle even minutes could matter. The three Air Defence Battalions that made the Northwest Military District home were well hidden within the city to maximize their life and increase their effectiveness and lethality.* 

[Rep. of New Mesa]

okay so I just got into Nation States and my nation is cool and all but i cannot wrap my mind around how you calculated those numbers (then again i might be missing something here so...)

 

i have a total of 6.0 million in my country. One quarter of this is 1.5 million. so i have 1.5 million possible recruits, now here is where it gets fuzzy. This is suppose to cut down more and I'm not sure if this applies to me.

 

i spend on average 9% of my GDP

Compulsory Military Service

and i have a Reasonable economy. 

 

So where do i get my "number"

[Intelligent Holograms]

6 million / 4 = 1.5 mil (like you said)

 

1.5 * 0.02 (2% for upper bound) = 0.03 mil.

 

You can have as an upper bound of 30'000 troops after that GDP and nation economy plays a part.

[Rep. of New Mesa]

okay very cool so how would i factor that then? 

 

my military is one of the top 3 of spending i only spend 21% and my economy is reasonable. So... what?

 

1.5* 0.015 = 26,250?

(my pop increased so it's now 7'000'000 )

[Anonymous]

I have a suggestion, below are two guns, one is an M4 and the other is a G36C, I think either one of those should be a mandatory infantry weapon.

[God-Emperor]

Several countries use other weapons as their standard infantry rifle so I don't think either or any should be mandatory.