punkdaddy Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I asked this in the admin requests section but i am not sure if the delegate has the authority to dissolve the Union. Here's the section of the Charter that I think is relevant: (5) The Union will recognize its own autonomy from the Delegate as an autonomous off-site community government of the West Pacific. Underline: mine. This is an interesting although not completely unexpected turn of events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 To clarify, the Delegate did not dissolve the Union. I did. The entire construct of the offsite government rests within my department. This line of reasoning and action has precedent and has been carried out before. I will be consulting with the Delegate, as I did last time this took place, to determine if we will hold a convention to establish a new offsite 'official' government. It is my understanding that any nation or group of nations are free to form whatever competing government that they wish within TWP, but only the government supported by the sitting Delegate is considered the 'official' one and all others would be either RP communities or, depending upon the tone, counter-governments. The sitting Delegate of TWP has the right to recognize the offsite government, or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhang Bhang Duc Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fujai Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Forgive me, but what exactly does the Minister of Legislative RP do? And who, if anyone, does he/she serve under? Also, why was the Voice dissolved instead of trying to fix the problem? As a resident, it doesn't make sense to just throw something away without attempting to fix it. And if there was an attempt, it was not made very public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkdaddy Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 I'm not convinced the Minister of Legislative RP has purview over the Voice. I can see arguments both ways given the latitude Vlagh was given when we had the constitutional convention so it is not completely out of the realm of logic. Having said that the last few days we were picking up traction with the Voice and we would have picked up even more given time. What concerns me most is that our Delegate did not come to me with concerns prior to this action being taken. I commented weeks ago that I was on vacation until last week and that afterwards my time would be freed up. Since then we've begun to see movement in the Voice and we will continue to see more as I know TWPers are interested in forging a future. the timing and the how this occurred have me troubled. not to mention, as I said, i'm not 100 percent convinced the legislative RP role is a role that continues. Darkesia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URAP Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I made clear, if not publicly, that the role did indeed exist. It does, and even with the government change at hand it will still exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkdaddy Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 I made clear, if not publicly, that the role did indeed exist. It does, and even with the government change at hand it will still exist. bold mine - this is a pretty important distinction. Understanding this role is critical. Had I known this to be the case and that Vlagh could when he wanted dissolve any thing we create now or in the future without so much as a comment, it would be likely to influence my past, present, and future participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URAP Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Well, let this be a reminder then- Vlagh is a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkdaddy Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Indeed he is. I like that use of his name. Westwind and That Called the Vlagh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Indeed he is. I like that use of his name. Extra points there for PD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhang Bhang Duc Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Revolution anyone? Big Bad Badger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I would like to clarify, since it has been brought up here and possibly elsewhere, that any shift in governing policy within TWP has not originated with myself or any affiliations elsewhere. I did, at the Delegate's request, share a general information message from Pierconium outlining how The Pacific government is structured. I do not, under any circumstances, want this region to believe any influence is being exerted on the Delegate. The Delegate is fully competent and capable of making decisions on his own. That said, I would also like to clarify that The Treehugger Imprisoning State of That Called the Vlagh, is a citizen of the West Pacific and has been so for a very long time. I do find some of the implications that are being made here and supposedly in private that I somehow represent an 'outside' influence within the region insulting. Anyone that has issue with me should speak with me about it directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkdaddy Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 I would state that Pierconium would not have qualms with TWP taking a TP-style government. I'm not in the loop enough to state an opinion on whether or not Pierconium would seek to influence our region to do so in the hopes of developing greater influence in our region. Given the recent AMOM fiasco I'd expect Pierconium to publicly refute any such insinuations - keyword being publicly. Honestly folks, as far as I'm concerned I don't have the desire to really investigate this further unless someone would like to call foul and do something. URAP is correct in that the Voice has been stagnant since day 1. I was making moves that would have made it less stagnant but I can tell you during my time as delegate, sometimes you have to make decisions and not everyone is going to like those decisions. You all know I carry a condemnation for many of the decisions I made and I don't regret a da-- thing. So I understand URAP's desire to get things moving. I am always concerned with other regions influencing us and that is because I am and will always be paranoid. Vlagh and his friend Pierconium are smart people and if there is a less than truthful aspect to what TP is doing in our region, it won't be discovered until it's too late simply because most of our offsite is asleep at the wheel. So we move forward after our delegate and hope that our delegate and the Guardians know what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Called the Vlagh Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I would state that Pierconium would not have qualms with TWP taking a TP-style government. I'm not in the loop enough to state an opinion on whether or not Pierconium would seek to influence our region to do so in the hopes of developing greater influence in our region. Given the recent AMOM fiasco I'd expect Pierconium to publicly refute any such insinuations - keyword being publicly. Honestly folks, as far as I'm concerned I don't have the desire to really investigate this further unless someone would like to call foul and do something. URAP is correct in that the Voice has been stagnant since day 1. I was making moves that would have made it less stagnant but I can tell you during my time as delegate, sometimes you have to make decisions and not everyone is going to like those decisions. You all know I carry a condemnation for many of the decisions I made and I don't regret a da-- thing. So I understand URAP's desire to get things moving. I am always concerned with other regions influencing us and that is because I am and will always be paranoid. Vlagh and his friend Pierconium are smart people and if there is a less than truthful aspect to what TP is doing in our region, it won't be discovered until it's too late simply because most of our offsite is asleep at the wheel. So we move forward after our delegate and hope that our delegate and the Guardians know what they're doing. TWP has been a strong ally to The Pacific for a long time, even during their screw-ups. I seriously doubt Pierconium would risk that relationship by seeking to undermine the sitting Delegate or the nations here. Your implication that he would seek to do so illustrates a lack of knowledge on how he does things. As far as I am aware, Pierconium isn't big on sacrificing the NPO's position for minimal gain. If TWP moved to more of a NPO-like system, you are correct, I believe Pierconium would be pleased. But I do not think he would push for it directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URAP Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I am in no way ignorant of the fact that Pierconium would be pleased. But god damn. They've got more activity than we do. So yes, I do take bits and pieces out of the NPO's government in formulating ours, but it is in no way Pierconium's making. It is entirely mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Badger Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 *Gets on soapbox* I feel that leadership in the voice was an issue. No sooner were people selected to fill positions, then they were absent. Frequently! For long periods of time without interacting with or leading the voice. It happened frequently and caused a void at a time when we needed guidance. Furthermore, several leaders in abstentia were guardians. So their void was felt on both sides of TWP. I would not complain without a possible solution. Nearly every absence was announced, but no one was substituted to take their place. When a DA or guardian has to leave because of RL, then a replacement, either full time or temporarily must be selected. Another leadership concern I have observed that has stifled activities on the forum is ejecting active members. I'm sure the people deserved to be removed but we haven't replaced their activity. Banning people has consequences. Makes some not want to be active. Lastly, leadership has not been as welcoming and encouraging as they need to be. Many never comment, post, or play the games thereby encouraging less forum usage with their absence. Some are negative or too stern when commenting. This is a game! People who are chastised do not have fun. Furthermore, I feel that many in the leadership are too clique-ish and exclude others especially new participants. Dissolving the Voice was the choice made by leadership to create more forum activity. Perhaps a change in management philosophy was all that was necessary? I'm not writing this as an indictment on delegates, guardians, advocates or deputy advocates. I'm writing this because I care. TWP has been fun for me and I'd like to increase my enjoyment. I'd like to be more active because it's fun for me! But leadership needs to be there for us to inspire activity! *Steps off soapbox* PS: I typed this on my phone, sorry for editing issues on an important post. Darkesia, Drachmaland, URAP and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I did placed my resignation when I went LOA You forgot me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reçueçn Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 *Gets on soapbox* I feel that leadership in the voice was an issue. No sooner were people selected to fill positions, then they were absent. Frequently! For long periods of time without interacting with or leading the voice. It happened frequently and caused a void at a time when we needed guidance. Furthermore, several leaders in abstentia were guardians. So their void was felt on both sides of TWP. This is true, and I feel especially guilty. My apologies to everyone. Normally, I would be on here arguing that the charter was created entirely independent of Vlagh's role, and that he thus has no authority (nor does the delegate) to dissolve the voice. However, my RL is still busy, and I can't honestly say that I can see my schedule becoming majorly less cluttered in the foreseeable future. So instead I will take the dissolution of the FA department as a welcome lowering of my work load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fujai Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Dissolving the Voice was the choice made by leadership to create more forum activity. Perhaps a change in management philosophy was all that was necessary? I agree. The Voice sign-in hasn't been updated in two months, but that could've been an easy fix. Also, it would have been even better to simply move the Voice out of a protected subforum. The Charter says that any resident can join, but it was locked away, protected by a dusty thread. If it had simply been out in the open, I'm sure there would have been more activity in it. It's possible that a change up of a couple things could have done wonders without scrapping the entire government. In my eyes, there wasn't much attempt to fix it, but that is just as much my fault as anyone's. Anyone could have spoken up, but it didn't happen until recently. Darkesia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 but it was locked away, protected by a dusty thread. If it had simply been out in the open, I'm sure there would have been more activity in it Except you ate totally wrong. The voice is open. There is a planning forum used for the DAs to do planning and paperwork which is locked, but the voice is open. Check yout facts first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malviet Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Except you ate totally wrong. The voice is open. There is a planning forum used for the DAs to do planning and paperwork which is locked, but the voice is open. Check yout facts first. What did we eat wrong? Did we not check the list for unholy things? Did we steal Dark's chocolate? Haha, a joke to freshen things up. Anyway, the voice WAS open. There WAS a planning forum for DAs to do planning, before they all got automatically fired. The Voice of the West Pacific Union WAS open. Not anymore - now it's just a blasted ruin full of clustered paperwork and people who didn't do their jobs..... for now. Elegarth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consular Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I am moderately confused as to what is happening. Darkesia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 What did we eat wrong? Did we not check the list for unholy things? Did we steal Dark's chocolate? I hate chocolate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hariko Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I hate chocolate *room falls silent* URAP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malviet Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I hate chocolate That's an outrage! Darkesia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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