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Post your ideas here and let's talk about it.  No matter how crazy or seemingly counter to TWP, let's hear it!  No fear of being thought of as silly or dangerous (Keep ToS please.)  All ideas are welcome!

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I love the spirit of this thread, and with that being said, here goes nothing!

Government reforms - parliamentary system

  • The delegate is elected by the Hall of Nations. This encourages participation in forum government, and keeps the delegate responsive to the people.
  • The Hall would probably function as it does, although the Delegate could assume the Speaker's function. I don't have much thought on that at the moment.
  • Ministers would continue to be elected or appointed as normal. Guardians would either stay as normal, or would have their positions assumed by the Ministers. Alternatively, a Minister of Security could be created that heads the Guardians. 
  • A vote of no confidence by the Hall can trigger a special election, with the victor serving until the end of the next term. No confidence votes can be used to either replace a single Minister or Delegate, or to remove and replace the whole Government.
  • A better judicial system where people can appeal ejections and the like, where the people doing the ejecting don't sit on the jury.
  • Have a functioning intelligence division. I've never seen or heard of any real activity in there, though perhaps they just do their jobs really well.
  • Brainstorm ways to make the Hall actually matter outside of elections.

Other assorted gripes

  • The TWP flag could use an update.
    • Since the last change, it's bothered me that the rays aren't symmetrical. Also gradients just aren't good for flags. An update should be something simple and instantly recognizable as TWP's flag. I have some variations that I've made over time here.
  • Official dispatches should have a cohesive aesthetic.
    • Everything looks so much better when there's a contiguous theme between dispatches. Think of us as an RL university. You would want the websites for the colleges and departments to follow the theme of the main university page so that people know they're on a university website.
    • TWP colors would need to be solidified. I recommend #CC0000 for the red, #481C5E for the purple, and white.
    • In dispatch terms, there should be a single header style, with a graphic and title that makes it obvious it's an official TWP dispatch. One menu below that would be for the main pages that should always be a click away. A second menu could be located either below that or to the side, that lists a table of contents or quick links specific to that dispatches needs. Here is an example of what I'm thinking of.
    • A single body style would control the font and size used, as well as the way headings and subsections look and are divided.
    • The footer style would be mainly aesthetic, containing a small section of quick links that includes the umbrella dispatch.
    • @Neenee, how do you feel about these flag and theme ideas?
  • We're really missing out on a vibrant part of a community by neglecting RP. We've kind of just accepted the fact that it isn't going to be popular in TWP, but it feels like we just need to collectively give it a shot.
    • This can be in a ton of ways, there can be a lot more than just story RP and the like. It seems to me that there's a good possibility of using our nations for this, what with the map and factbook success we've had in the past.
      • Edit: What I mean by "using our nations" is by encouraging things like the Teikei and the LoEA
    • On that note, I'd be willing to put together a new map and keep it updated and try revamping Darkipedia, there's a whole lot of potential there. Here is a mockup for Darkipedia's main page. @Mediobogdum and @Davelands, I'm curious as to what you think of these.
  • There are too many banjections for minor infractions. It'll take more effort to explain our rules to people, but it's certainly worth a shot.
    • People don't like to read on the internet. Just tossing our rules at people and ejecting them when they don't read them isn't doing us any favors. That information should be offered in multiple places and different depths. There should be a very condensed form on the WFE, a more in depth form explained when people ignore what is on the WFE, and finally a dispatch with the whole list and explanations for after an RMB/telegram explanation.
    • Newbies might be smelly at first but they tend to get better with age if we just give them a shot in the beginning, metaphorical or otherwise.
  • Edit: Comic Sans and Papyrus should be outlawed in this region for crimes against humanity.
Edited by Fujai

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There are a lot of ideas in here so I'm going to try to go through them carefully.

1 hour ago, Fujai said:
  • The delegate is elected by the Hall of Nations. -snip-
  • -snip-
  • -snip- 
  • -snip

TWP has evolved the current Mertiocracy system over years and it has resulted in a very stable region where effort is rewarded. There are plenty of other regions that run on a Parliamentary Democracy and quite frankly the system promotes corruption, and popularity over rewarded effort.

1 hour ago, Fujai said:

A better judicial system where people can appeal ejections and the like, where the people doing the ejecting don't sit on the jury.

Citizens have this right already and even though the people doing the ejecting sit on the jury (along with the Delegate and Speaker of the Hall), the only time an appeal was filed the person was allowed back into the region (and then promptly left on their own accord). Seems to work as is, but I can see the case for a Judicial group (with oversight by the Delegate of course).

1 hour ago, Fujai said:

Have a functioning intelligence division. I've never seen or heard of any real activity in there, though perhaps they just do their jobs really well.

If they are doing their job correctly you will never hear about it.

1 hour ago, Fujai said:

Brainstorm ways to make the Hall actually matter outside of elections.

Already being done and I am all for more voices for this.

1 hour ago, Fujai said:

The TWP flag could use an update.

That's a great idea. Perhaps a contest, although again, the flag is a old tradition so it would have to be in the same basic style.

1 hour ago, Fujai said:

Official dispatches should have a cohesive aesthetic.

I love this idea too! I played around with this when I was Delegate (and used a Dispatch/Report template when I was MoFA). Bran did a lot of work on it too, but that stuff is mostly lost now. Your layout is nice.

1 hour ago, Fujai said:

We're really missing out on a vibrant part of a community by neglecting RP. We've kind of just accepted the fact that it isn't going to be popular in TWP, but it feels like we just need to collectively give it a shot.

I admit that I am very weak when it comes to Role Play. It's just not my wheelhouse. If you want to redo the map, I'm 100% behind you. Just let me know what help you need. Same for the Darkipedia. It's a nice clean format and may be an excellent resource for people.

1 hour ago, Fujai said:

There are too many banjections for minor infractions. It'll take more effort to explain our rules to people, but it's certainly worth a shot.

When I became a Guardian under Elegarth there were over 20 banjections every DAY. After Badger took over it went down and it went down even more under my leadership. At the moment we banject less than 20 in a WEEK and most of them are for name/motto/data infractions. The rest are either obvious trolls or people who are given at least 2 or 3 chances to follow the rules.

2 hours ago, Fujai said:

People don't like to read on the internet. Just tossing our rules at people and ejecting them when they don't read them isn't doing us any favors. That information should be offered in multiple places and different depths. There should be a very condensed form on the WFE, a more in depth form explained when people ignore what is on the WFE, and finally a dispatch with the whole list and explanations for after an RMB/telegram explanation.

It's not too much to expect people to at least skim over the rules to a game they are playing. The RMB Etiquette dispatch is one screen in length with lots of white space. The WFE has a size limit to it. The one that is up now is literally as large as it is allowed (as in I had to remove some spaces and codes just to make it fit). I think we do a much better job than in the old days of explaining and linking to the rules and giving people chances.

2 hours ago, Fujai said:

Comic Sans and Papyrus should be outlawed in this region for crimes against humanity.

I will hunt you down and fight you if you try to do that. Comic Sans is a happy accident that works wonderfully as an off-beat fun font. In fact, if you go to the Regional Forum of Karma you will see that I wrote a spirited defense of Comic Sans as part of my entry into that region.

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24 minutes ago, Davelands said:

TWP has evolved the current Mertiocracy system over years and it has resulted in a very stable region where effort is rewarded. There are plenty of other regions that run on a Parliamentary Democracy and quite frankly the system promotes corruption, and popularity over rewarded effort.

For the most part, in Hall elections, the most capable candidate has been chosen. In many cases that candidate happened to also be the most popular. I feel like it would increase participation and interest, and it would be a fairly simple change overall, the most jarring part of it would be ideological. We already have a strong meritocracy, and there's no reason that electing the Delegate would change that.

28 minutes ago, Davelands said:

Seems to work as is, but I can see the case for a Judicial group (with oversight by the Delegate of course).

I agree that it isn't much used, but it also isn't much advertised. My real gripe with it is that one of the people your appeal is heard by is the one who ejected you. Selecting jurors ad hoc would limit the bias of potential appeals and trials.

33 minutes ago, Davelands said:

That's a great idea. Perhaps a contest, although again, the flag is a old tradition so it would have to be in the same basic style.

I'd argue that ones in the dispatch are in a similar design, but a different style. The design is good, it's the execution that I feel is problematic and counter to accepted flag design, mainly with the gradient. A lot of flags on NS aren't so much flags for a nation or region as banners for a personality, which isn't bad, but perhaps not appropriate for a region.

37 minutes ago, Davelands said:

If you want to redo the map, I'm 100% behind you. Just let me know what help you need. Same for the Darkipedia. It's a nice clean format and may be an excellent resource for people.

I can get a map made up this weekend, I think. I like the style Bran did it in, but a larger scale would be better. I can make a thread for it over in RP if you're into it and make an announcement on the RMB and Discord to start taking requests. Medio is the caretaker for Darkipedia right now, so it'd be up to him, but I'm glad you're into a redesign!

41 minutes ago, Davelands said:

It's not too much to expect people to at least skim over the rules to a game they are playing. The RMB Etiquette dispatch is one screen in length with lots of white space. The WFE has a size limit to it. The one that is up now is literally as large as it is allowed (as in I had to remove some spaces and codes just to make it fit). I think we do a much better job than in the old days of explaining and linking to the rules and giving people chances.

You're right that it's not too much to ask, but in some cases it's just too much for people to do. At that point I don't think there's much to do apart from making it as accessible as possible. The RMB Etiquette dispatch might be one page, but there's just a lot of information there and it's not very user friendly. A little formatting could go a long way on that one in particular, though you're right that we're doing better than a couple years ago.

I didn't know that the WFE had a size limit, is that determined by the amount of code or the amount of text displayed?

46 minutes ago, Davelands said:

When I became a Guardian under Elegarth there were over 20 banjections every DAY. After Badger took over it went down and it went down even more under my leadership. At the moment we banject less than 20 in a WEEK and most of them are for name/motto/data infractions. The rest are either obvious trolls or people who are given at least 2 or 3 chances to follow the rules.

Those numbers sound right, and if so that's a lot of progress. The most prevalent loss of population is probably less on banjections and more on people just leaving for their multitude of reasons.

47 minutes ago, Davelands said:

I will hunt you down and fight you if you try to do that. Comic Sans is a happy accident that works wonderfully as an off-beat fun font. In fact, if you go to the Regional Forum of Karma you will see that I wrote a spirited defense of Comic Sans as part of my entry into that region.

Comic Sans is overused and badly designed. Far be it from me to outlaw your fun, but there are plenty of fonts out there that can be upbeat and warm while keeping good design standards. I suggest looking at Google Fonts for others that may be better designed.

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Fujai, with regard to: 

"On that note, I'd be willing to .... try revamping Darkipedia, there's a whole lot of potential there. Here is a mockup for Darkipedia's main page. @Mediobogdum and @Davelands, I'm curious as to what you think of these."

I have tried a few times to encourage players to submit their factbooks and have even got some to add to their first meagre offerings.  One of the problems is that many/most new players have little or no skills in using the codes to format iaw the Darkipedia master page you propose.  We need to emphasize that the easier to produce version, ie, like mine because I am a BBCode beginner, are perfectly aceptable provided they contain most of the required data... :)

I like the master page format, it is glossier than mine with a more standard look and could form an excellent basis for submissions.

There are some candidates for starters at:  http://www.westpacific.org/forums/index.php?/forum/105-atlas-of-the-occident-map-factbooks/  although the books are rather sparse in all but one case :)

Edited by Mediobogdum
Addition of forum thread for factboks

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I made a couple updates to the Darkipedia mockup with your suggestions. Emphasizing the FWA style factbook is a great idea to get people in the door. I removed the "required" language surrounding the header, footer, and sidebar text, and added a bit to make it more user friendly.

I was also thinking that we could move the Darkipedia main page to a dedicated Darkipedia Index Foundation nation so it isn't tied to just one person and updating is easier, and so it's easier to recognize. Darkipedia-specific guides and more information could be posted there later as well, and it could be used as a repository for TWP role play, perhaps.

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Fujai, 

On 8/24/2018 at 2:27 PM, Fujai said:

Official dispatches should have a cohesive aesthetic.

  • Everything looks so much better when there's a contiguous theme between dispatches. Think of us as an RL university. You would want the websites for the colleges and departments to follow the theme of the main university page so that people know they're on a university website.
  • TWP colors would need to be solidified. I recommend #CC0000 for the red, #481C5E for the purple, and white.
  • In dispatch terms, there should be a single header style, with a graphic and title that makes it obvious it's an official TWP dispatch. One menu below that would be for the main pages that should always be a click away. A second menu could be located either below that or to the side, that lists a table of contents or quick links specific to that dispatches needs. Here is an example of what I'm thinking of.
  • A single body style would control the font and size used, as well as the way headings and subsections look and are divided.
  • The footer style would be mainly aesthetic, containing a small section of quick links that includes the umbrella dispatch.
  • @Neenee, how do you feel about these flag and theme ideas?

 

I'm down with working on having a theme, something that will make whatever it is on be obviously a TWP thing that is official. Also, I agree the flag could use an update, and I think you're on the right path with the examples you have there. I do differ a bit from Dave, though, in that I don't think it has to really be the same style. I'd be interested in seeing anything that feels like TWP. I love tradition and old things, but sometimes something fresh is good too.

I disagree greatly with the delegate being elected. 

Dave is right, for Intel to be doing their job properly, you won't know. If you know a lot of what they are doing, it's being done wrong.

Making the Hall matter beyond elections would be great, that is absolutely something to work on.

On 8/24/2018 at 2:27 PM, Fujai said:

There are too many banjections for minor infractions. It'll take more effort to explain our rules to people, but it's certainly worth a shot.

  • People don't like to read on the internet. Just tossing our rules at people and ejecting them when they don't read them isn't doing us any favors. That information should be offered in multiple places and different depths. There should be a very condensed form on the WFE, a more in depth form explained when people ignore what is on the WFE, and finally a dispatch with the whole list and explanations for after an RMB/telegram explanation.
  • Newbies might be smelly at first but they tend to get better with age if we just give them a shot in the beginning, metaphorical or otherwise.

 

The number of banjections have decreased. However, I get your point. And I agree entirely, I think that new players are often reacted to poorly if they are obviously new or behave in a way that makes it clear they didn't click and read the things first. Many of them do, and that's awesome, but the ones who don't and are still well-intentioned should probably get more of a friendly nudge than a "Can't you read?" That attitude isn't happening as often, either, so I think in general we are on the right path here.

We were all newbies once. 

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1 hour ago, Neenee said:

The number of banjections have decreased.

This is the complete banjection list from the past week. All were banned for name/data infractions as you can easily see. I think that we have done a really good job in stopping the reflexive banjections for minor RMB infractions that was prevalent when I joined. In fact, I was almost banjected after a couple of months on the RMB because someone felt that I was speaking out of turn.

You are right in that the general attitude to noobs asking the basic questions is usually "Here, read it". To be honest, it is easier than saying two paragraphs of boilerplate 5 times a day. But I recognize that some people don't want to read so I made a smaller version of the RMB Rules and added it to the WFE. It should be easier to look at and read. https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1084143

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6 minutes ago, Davelands said:

You are right in that the general attitude to noobs asking the basic questions is usually "Here, read it". To be honest, it is easier than saying two paragraphs of boilerplate 5 times a day. But I recognize that some people don't want to read so I made a smaller version of the RMB Rules and added it to the WFE. It should be easier to look at and read. https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1084143

That's great, and I think something that simplified will be useful (because yes, people don't want to read), and will probably handle a lot of the questions/behavior that would otherwise come up on the RMB.

I think my concern is the people who want the human contact, so to speak. They want to interact and ask questions. Obviously though, it is preferable that they read the things first and then ask, and we should encourage that. But, as long as the attitude is "Here, this will help" and not "Can't you read?" that should make a difference.

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23 hours ago, Fujai said:

I made a couple updates to the Darkipedia mockup with your suggestions. Emphasizing the FWA style factbook is a great idea to get people in the door. I removed the "required" language surrounding the header, footer, and sidebar text, and added a bit to make it more user friendly.

I was also thinking that we could move the Darkipedia main page to a dedicated Darkipedia Index Foundation nation so it isn't tied to just one person and updating is easier, and so it's easier to recognize. Darkipedia-specific guides and more information could be posted there later as well, and it could be used as a repository for TWP role play, perhaps.

I like the simplified Darkipedia mockup and have already changed my entry by adding the standard header and footer and it looks great!  Would not be offended if the whole index was moved from my dispatch to a Darkipedia Index Foundation nation as it would make the site more readily accessible to players.  Feel free to move, alter as you best see fit... you have my full support... I have only been keeping things ticking along :)

We do need, however, to place a minimum content for a factbook to be accepted with not too many areas just entered as "Work in Progress"!  Maybe start off by being somewhat relaxed and slowly turn the heat up as we gain more interest?

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As far as banjections go, I have to confess that I am probably the one who is guilty of removing unwanted most of the chaff with names like adhgffrrtr, etc as they show little or no real interest in being serious about the game. We also traditionally have banned meme nations, marsupials (not many recently), fascists, Nazis, and all Trump names.

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2 minutes ago, Mediobogdum said:

As far as banjections go, I have to confess that I am probably the one who is guilty of removing unwanted most of the chaff with names like adhgffrrtr, etc as they show little or no real interest in being serious about the game. We also traditionally have banned meme nations, marsupials (not many recently), fascists, Nazis, and all Trump names.

Those are banjections I can get behind. Certain names just point to bad times with a nation.

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On 8/24/2018 at 3:27 PM, Fujai said:
  • Have a functioning intelligence division. I've never seen or heard of any real activity in there, though perhaps they just do their jobs really well.

Sun Tzu called it the 'Divine Manipulation of the Threads'.

When these five kinds of spy are all at work, no one can discover your secrets and systems. 

1. Local spies - services of local inhabitants
2. Inward spies - making use of officials of the enemy
3. Converted spies - using the enemies spies for your own purposes
4. Doomed spies - taking false information to the enemy 
5. Surviving spies - execute operations based on information gathered or situations created by other spies
 

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I am still ytying to use this forum for multiquotes so I will not quote:

For Dispatchs: 

- I dislike that Red to be honest, it is so bright and cause me serious headache, and I am sure that there is a few people that sadly will provoke them an issue by the bright.
- However, if it is true that I do not do so much for dispatches, I use the basic Wikipedia Format: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=khanterwinters/detail=factbook/id=main
that allows me to play with it, without causing sting in my eyes for abuse of colour (I am not saying that Darkipedia is bad, it is just that for some sadly reason hurts my eyes).

 

Flag: 

- If it is true that we need to update, I suggest a slight update, I do like the actual to be honest. I do like @Mediobogdum type of colours of his forum signature: http://prntscr.com/koh4zy (screencap)

Comic-Sans:

- I Vouch @Davelands  to Hunt you if you want to try to remove it.

Parliment System:
- No No No and NO. Have not you heard the Coup in Lazarus? and Others Coups? Do not put ideas of Democracy, even Real life, Democracy is a Failed system.
 

Vote of no Confidence:

- Erm, just remember this quote "Do laws thinking in the worst of cases", Making a Vote of no confidence, in worst of cases, will cause Coup talkings. So, erm.. Nope (?)

Hall of Nations-ect-stuff:
- if you can make that Residents become Hall of Nations, and HoN be so active to nominate Deputies or Ministers, then you have a win-win. Remember that is a game, and the people who is in the ministery is because is the active people at all, and the people with experience. 

However, I could suggest a Civil Service or Education Service, to help new HoN to know how to work in each Ministery, to know the job of a Deputy, ect.

 

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On 9/20/2018 at 8:09 AM, Darkesia said:

Bumping this because a little grave digging buried it and I think we were having a great discussion here before the interruption.

I would like to read if you have any Idea or counter Idea Dark! 

Another Idea :rolleyes:
All chocolates now belongs to Neenee

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I really disagree voting for Delegate.  You need stable leadership and protection for the region, else you run into it being really easy to take over the region, which has happened to other feeders before.

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No system is foolproof.  I am evidence that a fool Delegate can choose the wrong successor and cause all kinds of difficulties.  And that same fool Delegate can choose a great successor.  But I believe that if the Guardians are used properly as an advisory board (internally, there is nothing worse for regional morale that open fighting in the ranks of leadership.) the chances of having a "rogue or coup" are greatly reduced.

However, I have noticed a new trend with regard to the off-site forums.  They are becoming quite integral to regional culture and leadership.  I think this is a result of cash becoming necessary for a decent forum.  I found out how much TNP spends on it's forum and it was a revelation to me.  They almost have to run constant elections and legislative rp in order to justify that kind of money spent.  And in order to defray the cost, they accept donations.  How much more participation to they gain from those who pay money to participate?

I am not in favor of running elections like TNP.  I left there NSCenturies ago, for precisely that culture of bureaucracy.  But I am in favor of a brainstorming session to bring more use out of our forum.  And we need to find a way to alleviate the financial burden of Winnie.  He has been footing the bill for years with very little help from a very few of us.  I plan to speak to some of the Admin team in TNP to see how they handle their financial burden to try to adapt something for use here.

On 9/21/2018 at 11:49 PM, KhanterWinters said:



Another Idea :rolleyes:
All chocolates now belongs to Neenee

Khanter has a death wish.  :p

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I have an TWP conundrum.  

I am not sure that the requirement to have people post at least once per month is an effective thing for the Hall of Nations.  But we have a beautiful forum and need more activity here.  What can we do to increase activity here?

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5 minutes ago, Big Bad Badger said:

 

I am not sure that the requirement to have people post at least once per month is an effective thing for the Hall of Nations.  But we have a beautiful forum and need more activity here.  What can we do to increase activity here?

I mean all is NS, and RMB activities. What about Forum Events, like Private events for Hall of Nations. That could make 2 things, increase Activity, and in certain way Increase Citizens.

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On 9/24/2018 at 11:59 AM, Big Bad Badger said:

I have an TWP conundrum.  

I am not sure that the requirement to have people post at least once per month is an effective thing for the Hall of Nations.  But we have a beautiful forum and need more activity here.  What can we do to increase activity here?

Activity in the forum has always been a major factor in NS, even back in the day - we had some sort of activity most of the post had replies at least once or twice per day, but still when you looked into the collective of posts activity was low, and it's not surprising... forums tend to be places of more analysis, looking for information and less about day 2 day or trivial conversation. Now with the availability of discord and other apps, makes more complicated to keep up.

I have an idea circling what to do with the forums, but still needs more analysis. :)

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